Draft Hull Table

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Draft Hull Table

Postby Crucis on Tue 07 Jul 2009 21:19

This message was posted earlier on the Starfire List and Aurora Board,
but I wanted to include it here for informational purposes. I will not
be posting the various replies, for brevity's sake.

I have slightly edited the posting below (though not the draft hull table),
simply to make it read better...

=========



Before I present the draft Hull Table, I want to give you some
background on how it was constructed. I did some serious analysis
of the old 3rdR sizes and not surprisingly discovered that there
is some inconsistency in those sizes. And the more I thought about
it, the more that I realized that it was these inconsistencies that
were often at the root of why certain hull types would feel relatively
and *proportionally* weak compared to other hull types.

Oh, of course, it's a given that one hull type will always feel weaker
in raw terms than the next larger hull type. However, certain hull
types were proportionally overly weak compared to the next type up,
or even the one below it.

The methodology used to produce the hull sizes was as follows. Using
the standard I/MP ratings, except for changing the FG's from 2/3 to 3/4,
I then set the hull sizes based on the assumption that one "I" was able
to move 33-1/3 HS at speed one, regardless of hull type. The result is
that certain hull sizes did not change much or at all, while others
changed more. The hull types that changed the most were the DD, CL,
and CA, largely because their previous sizes were "only" set to sizes
rated at 30 HS per "I", rather than 33-1/3 HS per "I".

By making all hull types proportionally sized according to their I/MP,
you end up with a set of sizes that should make all hull types feel
much more balanced vs. each other. BTW, note that this was really
only an issue for the hull sizes from ES thru BC. From BB and above,
the hull spaces were much more proportionally accurate.

A note on the FG size: Without going into a long dissertation, the
increase in size was necessary to make the FG more balanced in capability
between the CT and DD, and the increase in I/MP is simply reflective
of the increase in size (or rather, the 3/4 I/MP is what set the size
to 25 HS). Note that the I/MP=3/4 is intentionally halfway between
the CT's 1/2 I/MP and the DD's I/MP of 1.

Now, here's the Draft Hull Table for Cosmic...



Hull TypeMax Size(I/Ic/J) I/MP
ES [1]111/3
CT [2]161/2
FG [3]253/4
DD [4]331
CL [5]501-1/2
CA [6]662
BC [7]832-1/2
BB [8]1003
DN [9] renamed SD (Superdreadnought)1334
SD [10] renamed SDH (Heavy Superdreadnought)1665
MT [11]2006
MH [12]2507-1/2
SM [13]3009
LN [14]40012
JG [15]50015
Hull TypeMax Size(I/Ic/J) I/MP


EDIT: 12-12-2012: It's my intention to return the hull type name and code after BB to being the SD for Superdreadnought, which it originally used from 1st edition thru 3rd edition. And SDH (for Heavy Superdreadnought) is the originally intended designation for the hull type between SD and MT.

Note: the number in [] is the FT number.

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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Darth Pedro on Sun 27 Sep 2009 17:09

Hull Class Code Spaces Hull Cost Turn Mode Max. Speed Cost per Engine Space per Engine Tech Level
Recon RN 10 50 0 8 1 1 1
Missile Boat MB 15 75 0 7 2 1 1
Corvette CT 22 110 1 6 5 2 1
Frigate FG 33 165 1 6 7 2 2
Destroyer DD 45 225 2 6 12 3 2
Light Cruiser CL 60 300 2 6 15 3 3
Cruiser CA 75 375 3 6 25 4 3
Battlercruiser BC 100 500 3 6 40 4 4
Battleship BB 150 750 4 5 75 5 4
Dreadnought DN 225 1125 4 5 135 6 5
Superdreadnought SD 450 2250 4 4 300 7 6
Titan TN 1000 5000 2 2 1500 15 7
Escort Carrier CVE 75 300 2 5 30 4 7
Fleet Carrier CV 350 1400 4 6 200 7 8
Freighter 1 FT 1 50 150 2 5 15 3 1
Freighter 2 FT 2 80 240 2 4 30 4 2
Freighter 3 FT 3 125 375 2 3 60 5 3
Freighter 4 FT 4 200 600 2 2 120 6 4
Base 1 OB 1 200 400
Base 2 OB 2 400 800
Base 3 OB 3 600 1200
Base 4 OB 4 800 1600

Above is a table I have been working on...

Too bad the C'P doesn't format well?
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Crucis on Sun 27 Sep 2009 17:18

Pedro, put the data in a CODE block, and it will format much better.
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby BillW on Sun 27 Sep 2009 17:28

What is the max speed for each hull size?
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Darth Pedro on Sun 27 Sep 2009 17:32

Code: Select all
Hull Class   Code   Spaces   Hull Cost   Turn Mode   Max. Speed   Cost per Engine   Space per Engine   Tech Level
Recon   RN   10   50   0   8   1   1   1
Missile Boat   MB   15   75   0   7   2   1   1
Corvette   CT   22   110   1   6   5   2   1
Frigate   FG   33   165   1   6   7   2   2
Destroyer   DD   45   225   2   6   12   3   2
Light Cruiser   CL   60   300   2   6   15   3   3
Cruiser   CA   75   375   3   6   25   4   3
Battlercruiser   BC   100   500   3   6   40   4   4
Battleship   BB   150   750   4   5   75   5   4
Dreadnought   DN   225   1125   4   5   135   6   5
Superdreadnought   SD   450   2250   4   4   300   7   6
Titan   TN   1000   5000   2   2   1500   15   7
Escort Carrier   CVE   75   300   2   5   30   4   7
Fleet Carrier   CV   350   1400   4   6   200   7   8
Freighter 1   FT 1   50   150   2   5   15   3   1
Freighter 2   FT 2   80   240   2   4   30   4   2
Freighter 3   FT 3   125   375   2   3   60   5   3
Freighter 4   FT 4   200   600   2   2   120   6   4
Base 1   OB 1   200   400               
Base 2   OB 2   400   800               
Base 3   OB 3   600   1200               
Base 4   OB 4   800   1600               
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Crucis on Sun 27 Sep 2009 17:42

Bill, I actually intentionally left out that information because there are, at TL1, three different major engine types, not counting the Ic drive.

The Ion Drive, the old familiar I drive. The Tactical Drive (or J drive). And an entirely new drive, the Plasma Drive, or P Drive. (Its code is not "P", but it's convenient to call it the P Drive.) Each of these drives has its own max speeds, strategic speeds, turn modes, and "I/MP" rating.

The I Drive will be entirely familiar in its various stats. The J drive will be using stats similar to those in Ultra, with its max speed being roughly +2 greater than I drives, but with a 1/3 strategic speed fraction. And the P Drive will be a smaller, slightly slower drive system, with a smaller blind spot, a higher strategic speed fraction (2/3).

The P drive is intended to be a SERIOUS alternative to the other two military drives. The smaller blind spot and lower turn mode are intended to make its slightly slower tactical speed less of a hindrance, as it will be rather more difficult for faster ships to get into a P Drive mounting ship's blind spot.


I also have some other higher TL drive types planned as well that I won't go into at this point...
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Darth Pedro on Sun 27 Sep 2009 17:52

The following table is for a 3d Vector game I am working on. Mass based upon volume of water and volume of steel are shown for comparison.

Code: Select all
Class   Length M   Diameter M   Gross Volume M^3   Footprint %   Net Volume M^3   H2O Mass Tons   Steel Mass Tons
OB Shuttle   50   10   3,927   60%   2,356   2,356   18,496
OB Freighter   100   30   70,686   80%   56,549   56,549   443,907
OB Station   50   200   1,570,796   40%   628,319   628,319   4,932,300
OB Spaceport   100   300   7,068,583   80%   5,654,867   5,654,867   44,390,704
OB Starbase I   100   200   3,141,593   60%   1,884,956   1,884,956   14,796,901
OB Starbase II   150   300   10,602,875   60%   6,361,725   6,361,725   49,939,542
OB Starbase III   225   450   35,784,704   60%   21,470,822   21,470,822   168,545,955
OB Starbase IV   338   675   120,773,375   60%   72,464,025   72,464,025   568,842,598
OB Shipyard I   100   200   3,141,593   30%   942,478   942,478   7,398,451
OB Shipyard II   250   500   49,087,385   30%   14,726,216   14,726,216   115,600,792
OB Shipyard III   250   1,250   306,796,158   30%   92,038,847   92,038,847   722,504,951
OB Shipyard IV   250   3,125   1,917,475,985   30%   575,242,795   575,242,795   4,515,655,944
IP Shuttle   100   30   70,686   60%   42,412   42,412   332,930
IP Freighter I   200   60   565,487   80%   452,389   452,389   3,551,256
IP Freighter II   300   90   1,908,518   80%   1,526,814   1,526,814   11,985,490
IP Freighter III   450   135   6,441,247   80%   5,152,997   5,152,997   40,451,029
IP Freighter IV   675   203   21,739,208   80%   17,391,366   17,391,366   136,522,224
IP Transport I   100   40   125,664   80%   100,531   100,531   789,168
IP Transport II   150   60   424,115   80%   339,292   339,292   2,663,442
IP Transport III   225   90   1,431,388   80%   1,145,111   1,145,111   8,989,118
IP Transport IV   338   135   4,830,935   80%   3,864,748   3,864,748   30,338,272
IP Missile Barge   200   80   1,005,310   60%   603,186   603,186   4,735,008
IP Fighter Carrier   200   80   1,005,310   60%   603,186   603,186   4,735,008
IP Laser Barge   200   80   1,005,310   60%   603,186   603,186   4,735,008
IP Sensor Pod   10   10   785   60%   471   471   3,699
IP Escort   100   30   70,686   60%   42,412   42,412   332,930
IP Destroyer   150   45   238,565   60%   143,139   143,139   1,123,640
IP Dreadnought   300   65   995,492   60%   597,295   597,295   4,688,768
IP Monitor   400   80   2,010,619   60%   1,206,372   1,206,372   9,470,017
IS Scout   100   20   31,416   40%   12,566   12,566   98,646
IS Explorer   115   23   47,780   50%   23,890   23,890   187,535
IS Escort   132   26   72,667   60%   43,600   43,600   342,261
IS Corvette   152   30   110,517   60%   66,310   66,310   520,537
IS Destroyer   175   35   168,083   60%   100,850   100,850   791,671
IS Light Cruiser   201   40   255,633   60%   153,380   153,380   1,204,033
IS Cruiser   231   46   388,786   70%   272,150   272,150   2,136,381
IS Battlecruiser   266   53   591,295   70%   413,907   413,907   3,249,168
IS Dreadnought   306   61   899,286   80%   719,429   719,429   5,647,519
IS Superdreadnought   352   70   1,367,702   80%   1,094,162   1,094,162   8,589,170
IS Monitor   405   81   2,080,104   80%   1,664,083   1,664,083   13,063,054
IS Base Station   500   1,000   392,699,082   90%   353,429,174   353,429,174   2,774,419,012
IS Freighter I   300   90   1,908,518   80%   1,526,814   1,526,814   11,985,490
IS Freighter II   450   135   6,441,247   80%   5,152,997   5,152,997   40,451,029
IS Freighter III   675   203   21,739,208   80%   17,391,366   17,391,366   136,522,224
IS Freighter IV   1,013   304   73,369,826   80%   58,695,860   58,695,860   460,762,504
IP Transport I   150   60   424,115   80%   339,292   339,292   2,663,442
IP Transport II   225   90   1,431,388   80%   1,145,111   1,145,111   8,989,118
IP Transport III   338   135   4,830,935   80%   3,864,748   3,864,748   30,338,272
IP Transport IV   506   203   16,304,406   80%   13,043,525   13,043,525   102,391,668
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Club on Mon 28 Sep 2009 00:57

All drives in ultra except the Jc have (Roughly) the same proportion of MP/turn mode; MP = TM at battlecrusier. Hadn't really realized that before. Maybe introduce the plasma drive there too.
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Crucis on Mon 28 Sep 2009 01:42

Club wrote:All drives in ultra except the Jc have (Roughly) the same proportion of MP/turn mode; MP = TM at battlecrusier. Hadn't really realized that before. Maybe introduce the plasma drive there too.


Club, unlike in Ultra, it's my intention to always try to keep the size of the individual engine system at either 1 hs, or in rare cases (i.e. the Ic drive) 2 hs. Thus, this tends to limit the manner in which I can reduce the number of HS any given hull uses for its engines to the I/MP "engine power" rating.

I should note that it's not my intention to simply lift every drive type in Ultra for use in Cosmic, such as the Gt Gravimetric Drive or the Antimatter Drive. I do have a couple of high tech drives in mind, as well as at least one "next generation" version of the first three drive types. Speaking of the those next gen drive types, it is very much not my intention to simply go with a bland incremental improvement of each of the 3 initial military drive types with a flat +1 to speed improvement. It's my intention that the next gen versions will actually each have a unique flavor of their own, that each drive type (i.e. I, J, and P) will (hopefully, if things work out properly) get its own unique improvement.

Also, I should have noted that the 3 basic drive types each have their own blind spot size. The I drive's is the familiar 60* BS. The J Drive's is a 120* BS. And The P Drive's BS (which is not set in stone) is probably going to be something like the hexrow to the rear, possibly with the remainder of the rear 60* arc being a "dim zone" with a to-hit penalty for fire into the "dim zone".


Another feature of the three drive types, or rather of the overall hull table (relative to engine stats) is that each drive will have its own unique set of "speed breaks". What I mean by "speed breaks" is this... think of the old 3rdR I drive speeds. CT was the largest spd 8 hull, DD the largest spd 7 hull, BC the largest spd 6 hull and so on. Well, the J drive's similar "breakpoints" will be FG, CA, and DN. And for the P drive, they'll be CL, BB, and MT. The result of this is that each drive type will have a preferable set of hulls (i.e. the largest ones for each given speed).

And speaking of speed, the max speeds of the I drive have been slightly tweaked in a couple of places, at larger hull sizes. The SD (new nomenclature, the 167 hs SD) will be speed 5, not speed 4. In general, for I drives, you can look at it this way ... the "cruiser group" (CL, CA, BC) has a speed of 6, the "battleship group" (BB, DN, SD) has a max speed of 5, and the "monitor group" (MT, MH, SMT) has a max speed of 4.
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Re: Draft Hull Table

Postby Club on Mon 28 Sep 2009 03:03

was suggesting adding P drives to ultra, not Gt and Jc to cosmic. Be a major revision though
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