Warp Points

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Re: Warp Points

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Fri 07 Dec 2012 06:35

In my campaigns wp stagnation was worst with mid to large capacity wp's where the defender HAD to erect defenses to stop a serious invasion. I have some ideas on that point that I'll post tonight.
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Re: Warp Points

Postby Crucis on Fri 07 Dec 2012 08:51

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:In my campaigns wp stagnation was worst with mid to large capacity wp's where the defender HAD to erect defenses to stop a serious invasion. I have some ideas on that point that I'll post tonight.


I'd rather that this particular thread not devolve into a discussion about WP Stagnation. I'll open another thread for that purpose momentarily.

Let's try to keep this thread on the topic of WP's themselves.
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Re: Warp Points

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Fri 07 Dec 2012 18:23

Based on the ideas in the rare system thread, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing wp's being located deep inside a super (or Hyper) giant star with the obvious fatal results.
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Re: Warp Points

Postby Crucis on Tue 11 Dec 2012 03:15

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:I haven't had access to ISF for about 15 years.

I do like the distance modifier based on stellar mass. I included it in my table. My type 8's are the coronal RG wp from scenario 30.01.21 in SAW.

My size goal was to have variability but divided by 10, not 100. The wp type is just a convention based on distance. So far I have no closed wp's available on initial sysgen in most cases.


Alexei, first, I'm not entirely sure that I understand what you're trying to say here. I just want to check to be sure...

Are you saying that you wanted capacity variability in increments of 10 hs, but not 1 hs? That is, say 290, 300, or 310, but not 299, 300, or 301? Or are you saying that you didn't like the WP capacities of 100, 200, 300, 400, 500?

And if so, what was the reason for that preference?
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Re: Warp Points

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Tue 11 Dec 2012 05:25

I wanted wp capacity to be a number divisible by 10. It allows for a variety of sizes, but makes it a bit easier for players to rationalize construction. It also makes things a bit more manageable for handling multiple transits.
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Re: Warp Points

Postby Crucis on Tue 11 Dec 2012 05:30

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:I wanted wp capacity to be a number divisible by 10. It allows for a variety of sizes, but makes it a bit easier for players to rationalize construction. It also makes things a bit more manageable for handling multiple transits.



"multiple transits"?
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Re: Warp Points

Postby Crucis on Thu 13 Dec 2012 11:23

Alright everyone, I'm working on another WP related idea in parallel to the more traditional way of looking at WP's.

This idea is rather off-beat and non-canon, and I am IN NO WAY committing myself to using it. But it's worth considering.

Here goes:

Rather than looking at capacity and distance as the defining characteristics of WP, maybe consider the idea of having each of the types have a different characteristic that's somewhat similar to some of the WP oddities. WP visibility would remain as an important characteristic. Let me give you the 6 characteristics I have thus far.




1. Gentle WP
These warp points are unusually gentle in terms of gravity stress. Transit effects are considerably reduced. This would definitely be an Open WP type.


2. Ultra-far WP
Instead of being somewhere in the usual 0-30 sH range from the star, this WP is something like 1-4, 5, or 6 StMP out. This one is a perfect Closed WP type, since being undetectable would eliminate the need to try to survey for them.


3. Huge WP
These WP's have a very large exit area. Ships exit the WP 1 tac hex from the WP, on a heading determined by the scattergram. Ships must exit heading directly away from the WP. Like normal WP's, the exit heading can be controlled after the WP has been surveyed, but the ship must still exit the WP heading directly away from it. Also the nature of this type of WP also forces the placement of mines and buoys back to a minimum of 2 tac hexes from the WP, rather than usual 1 tH. This is a definite Open WP type.


4. Turbulent or Rough WP
This type automatically inflicts greater than normal transit effects, even on a normal transit. (Of course, it only matters in a combat situation.) Not sure if this should be an Open, Concealed, or Closed type, though leaning towards Concealed.


5. Unstable WP
This type is so internally complex and unstable that no ship can ever control its heading when exiting the WP. Of course, this is only a problem in a WP assault situation. Probably either a Concealed or a Closed WP type.


6. Ultra-close or Coronal WP
Sort of self-explanatory. Probably a Concealed WP, so that it can mirror the old Type 7 WP.


Note: I'm wary of using a WP type whose effects match the jump drive, but I won't rule out either. In general, my thinking is that Open WP's should be the most large and bland/gentle in their effects, whereas concealed WP's would be more turbulent. And closed WP's probably don't have any specific characteristic, other than perhaps it being convenient if one doesn't have to bother surveying for them, like the ultra-far WP type above. Also note, if you don't see a WP Oddity from Ultra in the list above, it probably means that it doesn't feel right for what I'm looking for.

Anyways, I'm looking for 9 more characteristics to define WP types in the off the wall WP idea. I'm leaning towards 5 Open, 5 Concealed, and 5 Closed. I've already got 2 Opens, 1 Concealed, and 1 Closed, and 2 "Closed or Concealed".

So ...

A. What do you think?

and

B. Any ideas for additional "characteristics"?

EDIT: Oh, also note that I'm thinking that these characteristics are strictly exit characteristics, not entry. And the types would not need to be matched up. For example, you could like a Rough to a Gentle and the only thing that would matter is which WP you'd exiting. If you're exiting the Rough WP, you're getting rough effects, regardless of the fact that you entered a Gentle WP on the other side.
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Re: Warp Points

Postby PracticalM on Thu 13 Dec 2012 12:45

Some type ideas
Delayed - ships exit the WP 1-3 turns after they entered. You could make it complicated and roll for each ship or roll for each tactical turn or roll for each hour/system turn/day/month

Rubber band - ships that exit the WP will be pulled back through the WP if they remain on the WP for more than 1 tactical turn (probably should be 10 tactical turns)

Resisted - ships that exit the WP can't return through the WP without going DF down

Charged - ships exiting the WP take 1 point of energy beam damage

Slingshot - ships exiting the WP move 1 MP faster next turn only

Slow Down - ships moving through the WP at full speed have an engine room shut down for 1d10 turns Ion Governor system can protect

Cluttered - ships exiting the WP and remaining on the WP are hard to target, additional -1 to hit ships on the WP

Cloaked - ships exiting the WP are treated as cloaked for 1 turn

Hard to Target - all LRW fire at ships on the WP is affected as if there was a 1 strength EDM (roll d10 for each LRW on a 1 it misses its target)
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Re: Warp Points

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Thu 13 Dec 2012 20:48

The characteristic I would like to see is a nexus wp. That is a wp with multiple destinations like the junctions like the wormhole junctions in the Honorverse. I'm thinking that the destination would depend upon the entry heading. Given that there are 6 possible headings on the hex map there would be six destinations. For obvious reasons a player couldn't make a double transit in a single tactical turn (exit heading for starters), but a nexus point would allow for far more rapid movement then having to travel long distances between wp's.
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Re: Warp Points

Postby Crucis on Thu 13 Dec 2012 21:40

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:The characteristic I would like to see is a nexus wp. That is a wp with multiple destinations like the junctions like the wormhole junctions in the Honorverse. I'm thinking that the destination would depend upon the entry heading. Given that there are 6 possible headings on the hex map there would be six destinations. For obvious reasons a player couldn't make a double transit in a single tactical turn (exit heading for starters), but a nexus point would allow for far more rapid movement then having to travel long distances between wp's.


I'm sorry, Alexei, but this sort of WP, along with Ultra/Solar's "Rosette WPs" (all 6 WPs in a star system are wrapped around a common center and are placed 20 tH from that common center, each on a different heading), break the underlying definition of the game's StMP movement system, wherein the average distance to cross a single star system, WP to WP, is about 1 StMP, or about 6 light-hours.

(For that matter, so does the Ultra-far WP, except in the other direction, which is why I may need to rethink using it.)

On average, the distance between 2 WP's in a star system needs to be about 30 system hexes (i.e. 1 StMP).
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