Sysgen Oddities

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Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Sat 08 Dec 2012 00:36

Sysgen Anomalies

Unlike the oddities in Ultra and Solar's optional rules section, these oddities will be highly specific to system generation, and will NOT be self-contained systems of their own. It's my intention that they be applied to ALL "normal" star systems, though one of the entries will be "change nothing".

Some oddities will be meant for systems with a Red Giant or Blue Giant, while others will be meant for normal planet-bearing star systems.

EDIT: Note that all of the oddities in this initial post with the exception of the LDC only apply to systems with planet-bearing stars.

EDIT 2: I've changed the entries that used to say "if X does not exist, do something else" to "if X does not exist, then change nothing". I want to make certain that there's a decent chance of changing nothing.




1. One Moon at a solar Lagrange point: A Rocky Zone planet has a moon at a solar Lagrange point. Add a Type mB moon with an orbital bearing 2 radians clockwise of the planet at the same orbital distance from its star.

The planet must either be in the HZ or Outer Rocky Zone. And if by chance the planet's orbit also places it in the star's tidelock zone, then the Lagrange point moon(s) is type mH, because the moon, like the planet, will be tidelocked to the star and will not rotate.

If no such planet exists in the star's HZ or Outer Rocky Zone, change nothing.


2. One Moon at EACH solar Lagrange point: A Rocky Zone planet has 2 moons at a solar Lagrange points. Add a Type mB moon with an orbital bearing 2 radians clockwise of the planet at the same orbital distance, and the other at the bearing 2 radians counter-clockwise of the planet.

The planet must either be in the HZ or Outer Rocky Zone. And if by chance the planet's orbit also places it in the star's tidelock zone, then the Lagrange point moon(s) is type mH, because the moon, like the planet, will be tidelocked to the star and will not rotate.

If no such planet exists in the star's HZ or Outer Rocky Zone, change nothing.


3. Dense Asteroid Belt: There are more planetoids in this asteroid belt than usual, and the belt is richer than normal. If multiple belts exist in the system, use the one closest to its star. If by odd chance the two belts are at the exact same distance (as could be the case in a binary system), pick the belt associated with component A. If there is no asteroid belt, change nothing.


4. Thin Asteroid Belt: There are fewer planetoids in this asteroid belt than usual, and the belt is poorer than normal. If multiple belts exist in the system, use the one closest to its star. If by odd chance the two belts are at the exact same distance (as could be the case in a binary system), pick the belt associated with component A. If there is no asteroid belt, change nothing.


5. Habitable Paradise: (simplified) If there's a T/ST present, its Habitability Index is set to equal that of the discovering race, and change the planet Type and mass to equal that of the discovering race's homeworld. If there's more than 1 T/ST in the system, choose the planet that's already the closest to matching the discovering race's homeworld and make it an exact match (for mass, type, and HI). If there's more than one "closest to matching" choice, randomly pick one. If there's only a mass 1 planet in the HZ of the star(s), make it match the discovering race's HW. If there are multiple mass 1 planets in the HZ of the star(s), randomly pick one. If there are no planets in the star(s) HZ, then change nothing.


6. Extremely High Resources: Randomly pick one Type H, B, or F planet, or asteroid belt and set its mineral wealth to Very Rich. This oddity cannot be applied to habitable planets or HGT's. If no such planets exist in the Star system, then change nothing.

7. Extremely Low Resources: Randomly pick one Type H, B, or F planet, or asteroid belt and set its mineral wealth to Very Poor. This oddity cannot be applied to habitable planets or HGT's. If no such planets exist in the Star system, then change nothing.


8. Hot Jupiter: Replace the innermost Rocky Zone planet with a mass 5 Type G planet. The gas giant gets its normal +5 # of moons modifier, though if in the tidelock zone, also takes that modifier as well. Moons will either by type mH or mB depending on the planet's location within the Rocky Zone.

This anomaly should most often be sunward of the HZ. But in the rare circumstance that one does get placed in the HZ, there may a possibility that a moon could become habitable.

If there are no Rocky Zone planets (or asteroid belts) to replace, move the innermost Type G planet from its original orbit to an orbit of 1 LM, and adjust the moon types accordingly.


9. Hot Neptune: Replace the innermost Rocky Zone planet with a mass 4 Type G planet. The gas giant gets its normal +2 die roll modifier for the # of moons, though if in the Tidelock Zone, also takes that modifier as well. Moons will either by type mH or mB depending on the planet's location within the Rocky Zone.

If there are no Rocky Zone planets (or asteroid belts) to replace, move the innermost Type G planet from its original orbit to an orbit of 1 LM, and adjust the moon types accordingly.


10. Planet missing: There's just nothing in this orbit. Any planet or asteroid belt in this orbit is simply removed. Roll 1d10 and remove the orbit number indicated. If the result indicates an orbit that does not exist, then change nothing.

In a binary system, roll for Component A first. If the die roll indicates an orbit that does not exist, roll again for component B in a binary. If the result once again calls for an orbit that does not exist, then change nothing; no planets are missing.


11. An Unusual Asteroid Belt: Turn the innermost planet, regardless of zone, into an asteroid belt. The belt has the normal number of planetoids (1d5), which are typed according to its location, pH, pB, or pF. If the innermost orbit already contains an asteroid belt, take the next orbit and turn IT into an asteroid belt. If the belt created ends up being in the star's HZ, it becomes an HGT. See oddity #12.


12. Habitable Gas Torus: Replace the innermost planet in the HZ, regardless of mass, with an HGT. The HGT has 1d5 planetoids.

(HGT's are treated as asteroid belts, except that each planetoids is automatically a Hostile environment with a maximum population of Colony. No NPR's, no indigenous life. Mineral wealth is rolled normally.)

If there are no planets in the star's HZ, then change nothing.


13. Long Distance Companion: The system has a long distance companion. The distance is 8 to 26 StMP (6 + 2d10). LDC's are treated as separate star systems for the purposes of system ID's and WP's, though astronomically speaking, both systems are part of the same overall star system .

Note that the two star systems are far enough apart that there's no gravitational effect on planetary formation for either.

Also note that the LDC system sees the parent system as an LDC as well. So it will either be necessary to create the LDC as a new system, or have the LDC be a previously unexplored system in a pre-generated galaxy (while making sure that the LDC system does make note of its parent being an LDC to itself). Regardless, the SM should do whatever seems best in this situation.

14. Change Nothing: Sort of self-explanatory.





Here are some more:

I've literally made these ones up on the fly. The ones speaking about twin planets would completely replace the twin planet roll in the moons section of the rules, and move it here.

Also, it occurs to me that where it says "if it doesn't exist, change nothing", I could just have the process cascade on down to the next oddity. And continue until the situation does exist, or it truly should to go a "change nothing" result.


Additional oddity ideas:

If a Type V (mass 2) or Type GD (mass 3) planet exists, turn the Type V into a mass 2 Type H or the Type GD into a mass 3 Type H. If neither exists, change nothing.

If a mass 1 Type B planet exists in the HZ, change it into a mass 1 Type M planet. This planet is habitable ... barely. If one does not exist, change nothing.

If a mass 2 Type T planet exists in the HZ, replace all of its moons (if any) with a twin Type T planet. If one does not exist, change nothing.

If a mass 2 Type T planet exists in the HZ, replace all of its moons (if any) with a mass 1 twin Type M planet. If one does not exist, change nothing.

If a mass 3 Type ST planet exists in the HZ, replace all of its moons (if any) with a twin Type ST planet. If one does not exist, change nothing.

If a mass 3 Type ST planet exists in the HZ, replace all of its moons (if any) with a twin Type T planet. If one does not exist, change nothing.

If a mass 3 Type ST planet exists in the HZ, replace all of its moons (if any) with a mass 1 twin Type M planet. If one does not exist, change nothing.

If a mass 2 or 3 Type B planet exists, replace it with a mass 2 or 3 Type M planet. For reasons that scientists cannot explain, this planet is habitable ... just barely. If one does not exist, change nothing.

Replace the innermost Type G planet with a mass 2 Type B planet. Roll for moons as if the planet was a mass 2 rocky planet.

The innermost Gas Giant has a single mass 1 Type M "twin planet" in its innermost orbit. Remove all other moons.

Replace the innermost Type I planet with a mass 2 Type F planet. Roll for moons as if the planet was a mass 2 rocky planet.

Replace the innermost Type I planet with a Type aF asteroid belt. Roll for planetoids and mineral wealth normally.


That's all I have for now.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Sat 08 Dec 2012 00:54

Here's some more:

Remove the planets or asteroid belts from every even numbered orbit.

Remove the planets or asteroid belts from every odd numbered orbit.



EDIT: And some more ...


If a mass 2 Type M planet exists in the planet's HZ and TLZ (probably orbiting a Red Star or Orange Star), a variety of environmental factors exist that causes the planet to be more hospitable. The planet is considered to be a Harsh environment to all natives of Type T planets. If one does not exist, change nothing.

If a mass 3 Type M planet exists in the planet's HZ and TLZ (probably orbiting a Red Star or Orange Star), a variety of environmental factors exist that causes the planet to be more hospitable. The planet is considered to be a Harsh environment to all natives of Type ST planets. If one does not exist, change nothing.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sat 08 Dec 2012 06:49

I like this list. Some options remind me of the table from Nexus 18.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Sat 08 Dec 2012 09:01

And some more new ideas... These ones are increasingly rough ideas that need messaging, but I thought that I'd toss them out there for everyone to peruse.



If a mass 2 or 3 planet orbits a Red Dwarf star at 1 LM, it will have a sufficiently large moon to force the planet to rotate relative the star. Thus, the planet type is changed to (mass 2 or 3) Type B, with a single Type mB moon orbiting at 1 tac hex. If one does not exist, change nothing.

(The planet could also be a mass 2 or 3 Type M, for inexplicable reasons. But Type T/ST is out of the question. Too cool.)



If a mass 2 or 3 Type M planet in its HZ orbits a White Star (spectral class A), change the planet type to Type T (for mass 2) or Type ST (for mass 3). Reason, the planet is of sufficient age to have developed a mature ecosphere. The planet has indigenous life, but no intelligent life (no NPR’s). ((Type A stars don't really have the life span to develop fully mature ecospheres and then develop higher life forms leading to intelligent life.))


If a mass 2 or 3 Type T/ST planet in its HZ orbits a Green Star, Yellow Star, or Orange Star, change the planet type from T or ST to Type M because the planet's ecosphere isn't mature. This would be true for ALL T/ST planets in this star system, since they would all be of the same age and their ecospheres equally immature.



More Rough Ideas


Super young T/ST’s: These planets are in a period of heavy volcanism. These worlds might be rather dangerous, barren worlds, with an atmosphere composed mostly of CO2 rather than O-N. These would be even less developed than Type M planets, when used as a placeholder for an early stage of T/ST development. Probably closer to Type B, but rather different than what we expect of Type B worlds.




Desert/Arid planet: This is a very dry Type T/ST planet. The planet does possess an O-N atmosphere, but possesses a very limited hydrosphere. It is a habitable, but not capable of supporting an overly large population. Call it Type A for Arid. Mass 2 Type A planets would be automatically Harsh environments for T races and Hostile for ST races. And vice-versa, Mass 3 Type A planets would be automatically Hostile for T races and Harsh for ST races.

NOTE: I’m not so sure that this is the right way to handle these planets. I don’t think that the environments are all THAT difficult. It's just that the real problem is a lack of water, which would limit populations, perhaps to Settlement level.

There is limited indigenous life and no intelligent life (i.e. no native NPR’s).
These are direct replacements for T/ST planets, but not for Tidelocked Type M planets.


Water Worlds: Type W/SW? O/SO? W for Water/SW for Super-Water. Or Type O for Ocean and SO for Super-Ocean.

These worlds have extremely high percentage of the planet’s surface covered with oceans with dry land limited to islands and archipelagoes. These worlds have excellent O-N atmospheres, though very much on the humid side. Type S/SW worlds are teaming with indigenous life, most of which is either aquatic or amphibian. And intelligent life is possible, so NPR’s are possible.

O/SO races would find Type A worlds Hostile, if not downright Desolate to the dryness of the atmosphere, etc.
Because dry land is limited, populations are limited on Water worlds to a maximum level of Medium.

These are direct replacements for T/ST planets, but not for Tidelocked Type M planets.


Glacial Planets might be possible, but they should only exist right on the outer boundary of the HZ, which makes them a bit too tightly rare and complex to deal with. Native life would seem to only exist deep in the oceans or in some more temperate zones near the equator. NPR’s might be possible, I suppose. These worlds would probably be considered Hostile for T/ST races, though perhaps Harsh for mass 2 glacials for T races or for mass 3 glacials for ST races.

Were Glacial World NPR’s to exist (Code unknown), they’d find Arid/Desert planets Hostile or Desolate, usually due to the heat. They might also find Ocean/Water planets Harsh, also due to the heat. Not so sure about T/ST’s. T/ST's would probably bee seen more favorably since most would have their cooler regions that races from glacial worlds find more palatable, not to mention glaciers and arctic regions, if the colonists really wanted a taste of their ice-covered homeworlds. (Of course, they might also see equatorial jungles on T/ST's as some sort of "green hell".)

Possible Codes: Type A for Arctic (but then Arid worlds would need to change their code to perhaps D for Desert). I suppose that Type GL would be possible, but some wise-arse might think that they were Green Lantern planets. :mrgreen:
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Sat 08 Dec 2012 11:11

As I've noted in the initial post, this current list of sysgen oddities is heavily skewed towards planet bearing star systems. About the only oddity that's doable for a giant star is the LDC. Also though, the oddities seem to favor stars with larger Rocky Zones and Biospheres, since a lot of the ideas are focused on tweaking rocky zone and biosphere planets. This particularly means that Red Dwarf systems (and Red Stars to a lesser degree) aren't seeing much action here.

I think that it's possible to come up with some oddities for giant stars and white dwarfs that could work. Oddities that work for Red and Red Dwarf stars could be a little tricker, since they have limited rocky zones and biospheres.



Also, I find that I'm rather fond of the variant T/ST planet types (i.e. Desert/Arid, Water/Ocean, and Glacial), and think that I might want to take them out of the sysgen oddities and move them into a "habitability oddity", so that any time you roll for a T/ST's Hab Index, you'd also roll for a variant T/ST. When these variants are hidden away in the large oddities list, they'll be rather rare. But if added to the Hab Index process, the T/ST variants would become more common.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Sat 08 Dec 2012 15:58

Some thoughts on Arid, Glacial, and Water worlds.

Glacial worlds, were they to exist, should properly only exist at the outer edge of the HZ. Maybe not quite on the outer edge perhaps for Green (Type F) and Yellow (Type G) stars that have wider HZ's, but close, maybe no more than 1 LM off the outer edge or perhaps 1 LM beyond the outer edge. (The HZ's are sort of a guess, since it's difficult to know all the factors involved in determining the HZ. Thus, HZ's are semi-educated guesses.)


Water worlds are, of course, planets with very high hydrospheres and limited amounts of dry land that limit population size. Of course, on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's arid worlds with very low hydrospheres and lots of dry (overly so) land, but limited amounts of water to support higher levels of population.

And BTW, Arid worlds are dry worlds but not necessarily hot worlds. An arid world near the outer edge of its HZ might be a cool but dry world. They could just be nominal Type T/ST's that when formed didn't receive as much water from the proto-planetary disk and other sources (comets, etc.) as standard T/ST's (or Water worlds, of course).

Now this isn't to say that there couldn't be some sort of "hot" T/ST variant that exists right on the inner edge of the HZ. And it probably is somewhat likely that such a "hot" variant world would be a bit on the dry side. I haven't included a "hot" variant because I don't know whether it should just be a desert world or if there's any other way to describe a "hot" variant T/ST. I've got 3 variants right now: one with an extremely high hydrosphere (Water worlds), one with an extremely low hydrosphere (Arid/Desert worlds), and one that's at the cold extreme of the HZ (Glacial worlds).




It has been suggested to me off-line that perhaps these worlds should just be subsumed into the normal Hab Index process. But I think that one could argue that the normal T/ST worlds represent the wide middle of habitability, and that Water, Arid, and Glacial worlds represent 3 extremes of habitability that don't necessarily have to be subsumed into habitability.

Furthermore, in the past one of the mild complaints about planet types is that T/ST's are a bit on the bland side. All you have is a generic T/ST planet and a habitability index, but nothing describing the worlds themselves. These 3 variant types represent an attempt to provide a little color to habitable planets without (hopefully) going overboard.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sat 08 Dec 2012 20:38

Hot wet planets could be jungle/rain forest much like Cretaceous Earth. Hot dry might be like Kalizwah in 3rd. Glacial might be like the Pre Cambrian Snowball Earth.

The super young planets and immature ecosystems can also be modeled from early Earth geologic history. Super early would be earth about 2 billion years ago. Immature might be late Cambrian period.

For the Lagrangian moons, I would be inclined to make them planetoids. Bigger than the Jupiter Trojans, but not as big as a moon.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Sat 08 Dec 2012 21:33

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:Hot wet planets could be jungle/rain forest much like Cretaceous Earth. Hot dry might be like Kalizwah in 3rd. Glacial might be like the Pre Cambrian Snowball Earth.


I was thinking in terms of 4 extremes (in pairs): hot and cold, wet and dry. Obviously, the "wet" slot is filled by water worlds. And "cold" is filled by "glacial" worlds. The hot and dry slots are a bit more tricky, perhaps in part because they're somewhat similar. Clearly from my description, the "arid" type is meant to fill the "dry" slot. But a "hot" slot might be a "desert" planet, which also ends up being rather on the dry side.

But you're not wrong in suggesting the possibility of a hot world with a significant hydrosphere which on a hot world would cause the atmosphere to be quite humid. And a jungle like world would have the advantage of producing lots of oxygen for an O-N atmosphere, whereas a true desert planet, like Dune's Arrakis would struggle to support its atmosphere. But a hot/wet world need not be entirely jungle. it might be a lot like Earth, just with a much higher average temp. There could be jungle regions, and desert regions. There might be more temperate regions near the poles. If the temperatures are truly oppressive (which would probably be required to consider this an "extreme" world worth of being a variant from the standard T/ST), then those temperate regions might be the only places where regular T/ST natives could live without technological assistance. Hence, the environment might be considered Harsh, at best. Hostile is probably too extreme, though ST natives might see a T version of such a world as Hostile and vice versa for T natives and the ST version of this type.

Could this type produce intelligent life and NPR's? Probably, yes. They're not lacking in the most basic requirement, water. Of course, they'd see glacial worlds as a cold hell, and dry worlds not much better. They would probably feel relatively comfortable with Water worlds, since they'll tend to be warm and humid.

If I can get 4 good "extreme" T/ST variants, I'm thinking that there should be a table that tells players how races of each type (plus T/ST) see each of the other types.



The super young planets and immature ecosystems can also be modeled from early Earth geologic history. Super early would be earth about 2 billion years ago. Immature might be late Cambrian period.


Yes, I've been thinking along those lines as well, though not with specific periods in mind, though if one gets too young, the planet could be a decidedly dangerous place with LOTS of volcanism, etc.



For the Lagrangian moons, I would be inclined to make them planetoids. Bigger than the Jupiter Trojans, but not as big as a moon.


Alexei, if they're not big enough to be "real" moons, then I won't bother. I tend to think that the economic value of planetoids comes not strictly from their own intrinsic value but from essentially being the base of operations for asteroid belt mining. So if you have a planetoid sitting at a solar lagrange point, I don't see it as having any where near the value of an asteroid belt planetoid. And I don't really want to get down into the weeds of tracking system bodies with 1 or 2 PU of economic output, because at that point, people are going to want to track every freakin' rock orbiting every gas giant. And THAT is not going to happen.

So if it's not moons, then the oddity might as well not exist to me.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sat 08 Dec 2012 22:46

Crucis wrote:Could this type produce intelligent life and NPR's? Probably, yes. They're not lacking in the most basic requirement, water. Of course, they'd see glacial worlds as a cold hell, and dry worlds not much better. They would probably feel relatively comfortable with Water worlds, since they'll tend to be warm and humid.


I used the Star Trek novel "First Frontier" by Diane Carey and Dr. James I. Kirkland as my frame of reference for Cretaceous Earth. In it the crew travels back in time to make sure that the K-Pg impact event happens. North Florida is fully tropical and areas near the equator have super tropical conditions. Also, sea levels were high enough that water covered almost 80% of the planet.

Crucis wrote:I was thinking in terms of 4 extremes (in pairs): hot and cold, wet and dry. Obviously, the "wet" slot is filled by water worlds. And "cold" is filled by "glacial" worlds. The hot and dry slots are a bit more tricky, perhaps in part because they're somewhat similar. Clearly from my description, the "arid" type is meant to fill the "dry" slot. But a "hot" slot might be a "desert" planet, which also ends up being rather on the dry side.


Why not go with Hot/Wet, Hot/Dry, Cold/Wet, and Cold/Dry. In layman's terms Jungle, Desert, Glacial and Tundra.


Crucis wrote:Alexei, if they're not big enough to be "real" moons, then I won't bother. I tend to think that the economic value of planetoids comes not strictly from their own intrinsic value but from essentially being the base of operations for asteroid belt mining. So if you have a planetoid sitting at a solar lagrange point, I don't see it as having any where near the value of an asteroid belt planetoid. And I don't really want to get down into the weeds of tracking system bodies with 1 or 2 PU of economic output, because at that point, people are going to want to track every freakin' rock orbiting every gas giant. And THAT is not going to happen.

So if it's not moons, then the oddity might as well not exist to me.


I see your point. I was thinking Ceres, not Europa for size. Ceres may not be large enough for what you had in mind.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Sat 08 Dec 2012 23:01

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:
Crucis wrote:Could this type produce intelligent life and NPR's? Probably, yes. They're not lacking in the most basic requirement, water. Of course, they'd see glacial worlds as a cold hell, and dry worlds not much better. They would probably feel relatively comfortable with Water worlds, since they'll tend to be warm and humid.


I used the Star Trek novel "First Frontier" by Diane Carey and Dr. James I. Kirkland as my frame of reference for Cretaceous Earth. In it the crew travels back in time to make sure that the K-Pg impact event happens. North Florida is fully tropical and areas near the equator have super tropical conditions. Also, sea levels were high enough that water covered almost 80% of the planet.


Well, Earth is currently covered by about 71% water, so we're almost there. ;)

Crucis wrote:I was thinking in terms of 4 extremes (in pairs): hot and cold, wet and dry. Obviously, the "wet" slot is filled by water worlds. And "cold" is filled by "glacial" worlds. The hot and dry slots are a bit more tricky, perhaps in part because they're somewhat similar. Clearly from my description, the "arid" type is meant to fill the "dry" slot. But a "hot" slot might be a "desert" planet, which also ends up being rather on the dry side.


Why not go with Hot/Wet, Hot/Dry, Cold/Wet, and Cold/Dry. In layman's terms Jungle, Desert, Glacial and Tundra.


Don't want to lose the water world. It seems like a staple of sci-fi. Besides, I like the imagery better than a jungle world. Plus, it limits dry land, thus providing a good excuse to limit population.




Crucis wrote:Alexei, if they're not big enough to be "real" moons, then I won't bother. I tend to think that the economic value of planetoids comes not strictly from their own intrinsic value but from essentially being the base of operations for asteroid belt mining. So if you have a planetoid sitting at a solar lagrange point, I don't see it as having any where near the value of an asteroid belt planetoid. And I don't really want to get down into the weeds of tracking system bodies with 1 or 2 PU of economic output, because at that point, people are going to want to track every freakin' rock orbiting every gas giant. And THAT is not going to happen.

So if it's not moons, then the oddity might as well not exist to me.


I see your point. I was thinking Ceres, not Europa for size. Ceres may not be large enough for what you had in mind.


Well, Ceres is almost large enough to reach my definition of moon, at about a 475 km radius IIRC. But generally speaking, I don't think that we should assume that the average planetoid is quite so large for the game's purposes.
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