Sysgen Oddities

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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Vandervecken on Wed 09 Jan 2013 01:22

In the Outer Rocky Zone you could find a Mass 2 or 3 V world. Because when a world has the right (well, wrong for us) combo of gasses, Ultra-Greenhouse effects can still make a relatively hellish planet all the way out to our AB for a typical G-2 star. Yes, it may be only 350 to 500 degrees at the surface instead of 800 degrees F.; but that will still bake your cake in 30 minutes, eh ??
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Wed 09 Jan 2013 01:26

Vandervecken wrote:In the Outer Rocky Zone you could find a Mass 2 or 3 V world. Because when a world has the right (well, wrong for us) combo of gasses, Ultra-Greenhouse effects can still make a relatively hellish planet all the way out to our AB for a typical G-2 star. Yes, it may be only 350 to 500 degrees at the surface instead of 800 degrees F.; but that will still bake your cake in 30 minutes, eh ??


I was wondering if a Type V was possible in somewhat cooler environs. ;)

Well, I have no problem including it in the mix for variety's sake, though it doesn't make for any useful real estate.

EDIT: Yikes! It just occurred to me that some of these oddball planet locations could require me to tweak how some planet types' moon types are defined. For example, a Type V in the Outer Rocky Zone wouldn't have a type mH moon, but a type mB moon. Hmmm. Maybe moon types shouldn't be set by planet type at all, but by the planetary formation zone in which their parent planet resides.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Wed 09 Jan 2013 04:59

Crucis wrote:
AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:What about a dust belt? What I'm getting at is an area that has mineral wealth, but no rocks big enough to support a population.


If the dust belt has mineral wealth, but no place for the miners to live, how do you suggest getting the benefit of that mineral wealth?


I'm thinking of rocks small enough to be towed to orbital smelters. Similar to some of the asteroid mining ideas floating around today. The mining crews would live on space based facilities.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Wed 09 Jan 2013 05:28

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:
Crucis wrote:
AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:What about a dust belt? What I'm getting at is an area that has mineral wealth, but no rocks big enough to support a population.


If the dust belt has mineral wealth, but no place for the miners to live, how do you suggest getting the benefit of that mineral wealth?


I'm thinking of rocks small enough to be towed to orbital smelters. Similar to some of the asteroid mining ideas floating around today. The mining crews would live on space based facilities.


I was looking for an answer relating to the game economic processes, not one describing pseudo-reality. ;)
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Vandervecken on Wed 09 Jan 2013 07:29

Crucis wrote: Well, I have no problem including it (V) in the mix for variety's sake, though it doesn't make for any useful real estate.

EDIT: Yikes! It just occurred to me that some of these oddball planet locations could require me to tweak how some planet types' moon types are defined. For example, a Type V in the Outer Rocky Zone wouldn't have a type mH moon, but a type mB moon. Hmmm. Maybe moon types shouldn't be set by planet type at all, but by the planetary formation zone in which their parent planet resides.



Yeah, those V worlds are not to useful to us O.-N. breathers.

I already switched moon types to reflect parent planet's zone in my VandSysGen.

I'll try to think of something more useful for your outer zone table.

Oh. and I'll weigh in that I like to see both M and B worlds in the Biozone and Outer Rocky zone. What makes one world Marginal and another Barren? Well, just a few percent drop/rise in Atmos. Pressure, a few degrees of temp, a tenth of a percentage of a nasty gas(es), some electro-magnetic field vs none, Plate tectonics in overdrive, nasty acid rain, a combo of some of the above, and soooo much more.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Crucis on Wed 09 Jan 2013 12:26

Vandervecken wrote:
Crucis wrote: Well, I have no problem including it (V) in the mix for variety's sake, though it doesn't make for any useful real estate.

EDIT: Yikes! It just occurred to me that some of these oddball planet locations could require me to tweak how some planet types' moon types are defined. For example, a Type V in the Outer Rocky Zone wouldn't have a type mH moon, but a type mB moon. Hmmm. Maybe moon types shouldn't be set by planet type at all, but by the planetary formation zone in which their parent planet resides.



Yeah, those V worlds are not to useful to us O.-N. breathers.

I already switched moon types to reflect parent planet's zone in my VandSysGen.

I'll try to think of something more useful for your outer zone table.


While you're at it, could you think about the Gas Zone as well. I've noticed that I included mass 4 and 6 type G's in the table, but they're also in the primary Planetary Mass and Type table already. So, I'll have to remove them from one place of the other. If I remove them from the primary table, it's basically saying that they're quite rare. The primary table for the gas zone looks like this:

Roll 1d10Result
1Mass 1 Type B planet
2Mass 4 Type G planet
3-9Mass 5 Type G planet
10Mass 6 Type G planet


So you can see that I've already got some of the obvious options for the Gas Zone in the primary table, though I'm not entirely sure that a Type B planet could ever end up as a Gas Zone planet. I suppose that a couple of other options for the oddball table could be mass 2 and 3 Type B's. And since I'll need to carve out room for the oddballs on the primary gas zone table, I suppose that I could just move mass 1 Type B's to the oddball table and replace it with the "here be oddballs" entry on the primary table.

I suppose that some might argue in favor of using Type I planets as Gas Zone oddballs. But I get the sense that Ice Giants are merely gas giants whose differing composition simply reflects the lower temperatures in the Ice Zone, and that if a Type I planet was moved into the Gas Zone, it would adapt to the slightly higher temps and end up looking more like a Type G planet. The same might also be true to a greater or lesser degree with moving Type F planets into the Gas Zone.


It's interesting that it's so much easier coming up with oddballs in the Inner Rocky Zone and the Biosphere, than it is further out. I suspect that I could come up with another 3-5 oddballs for the HZ without trying too hard, starting with including some Type V's and GD's.



Oh. and I'll weigh in that I like to see both M and B worlds in the Biozone and Outer Rocky zone. What makes one world Marginal and another Barren? Well, just a few percent drop/rise in Atmos. Pressure, a few degrees of temp, a tenth of a percentage of a nasty gas(es), some electro-magnetic field vs none, Plate tectonics in overdrive, nasty acid rain, a combo of some of the above, and soooo much more.


Well, those "few degree of temp" do make a world of difference where liquid water is concerned. ;)

Anyways, this is where that scenario above comes in, where I suggested that the presence of a large-ish moon could have positive effects on an otherwise Type B planet due to tidal effects. Those tidal effects could help keep the planet's core rotating, thus keeping a mag-sphere in place, thus protecting any atmosphere from solar winds, and warming the planet perhaps enough to melt some of the the planet's water, which might also help grease the skids of plate tectonics and keep the entire train a-rolling.

But because this scenario is dependent on the presence of the moon, I didn't want to include it in the ORZ list. I wanted only scenarios that are stand-alone, and don't depend on some other part of the sysgen process. This tends to make this scenario more of a true "oddity". In fact, there is an oddity in Ultra that closely parallels this ... the "Hostile O2 Planet". I'd like to think that I've only come up with a logical justification for the scenario. (Well, leveraged an idea I got from wikipedia ...)


EDIT: Oh, I just noticed that you mentioned Type M planets for the Habitable Zone. (FYI, I'm changing the terminology in the sysgen rules to say "Habitable Zone" rather than "Biosphere". It seems that wherever I look on the net, the term that's used to describe the liquid-water zone is "Habitable Zone", not "Biosphere", so I will go with that convention.)

First of all, the two primary uses of the Marginal type are a) tidelocked planets that would otherwise be T/ST's, and b) planets that would otherwise be T/ST orbiting White (class A) Stars. I assume that the latter are too young to have developed a proper ecosphere due to the short lifespan of class A stars, and hence are considered Type M. Of course, Type M is intended to be sort of a catch all category for any "marginally habitable" environment scenario. And I imagine that there are other scenarios that could fell into the Type M bucket. Of course, given that the oddball bucket represents no more than 5-10% overall, I doubt that any additional Type M's represent any great addition to the number of overall habitables.
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Re: Sysgen Oddities

Postby Vandervecken on Tue 15 Jan 2013 04:32

You could put a Bd in the Gas zone oddities. Certainly no real-estate for any life form with a Bd there, but they could be found in just about any zone. Better chance of forming in the farther zones, but migration (mostly) can see them closer. Nothing really outside-the-box is popping into my mind, but I will keep thinking about it and see if something interesting sneaks in.
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