Warp Points, Take 2

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Warp Points, Take 2

Postby Crucis on Thu 03 Jan 2013 22:58

Here’s a new idea for determining WP Types, a very new idea. The underlying idea here is to go for a very simple, clean WP Type table.

There would be only 4 types. And the general philosophy is that the more visible the WP type is, the larger its capacity and the further from its primary it would be, on average. And vice-versa, the less visible the WP type is, the smaller its capacity and the closer to its primary it would be, on average.


Roll 1d10TypeVisibilityCapacity (in HS)*Distance (in sH)**
1-4AOpen400 + (1d100)18 + 2d6 (20-30); Ave.Dist. = 25
5-7BHidden300 + (1d100)9 + 2d10 (11-29); Ave.Dist. = 20
8-9CShadowed200 + (1d100)4 + 2d10 (6-24); Ave.Dist. = 15
10DClosed100 + (1d100)2d10 (2-20); Ave.Dist. = 10


* Capacity could also be done as “+ (1d10 * 10)”, though that wouldn’t really be much of an advantage given that the Cosmic hull table isn’t a clean round numbers only hull table.

** WP distances could use a flat distribution, using a single d10, or a more bell-curved distribution, using 2d10 or 2d6. However, the key underlying point is that each type has an average distance that must exist to support the LH strategic movement system.



EDIT: Just a reminder... As has always been the case, the functional capacity of any two connected WP's is always the smaller of the two WP's capacities.


Limited safe simultaneous transits would be allowed. Divide the WP capacity by the number of ships you'd like to send through in a single impulse, and the result is the total HS of ships that can safely transit.

Examples: Say that you have a 400 HS WP and you want to send through 2 ships. You'd be allowed to send thru 400/2 = 200 HS of ships, which could be 2 BB's. But let's say that you wanted to send thru 5 ships. That's be 400/5 = 80 total HS of ships, which might be 5 CT's. As you can see, the more ships you want to send thru, the more limited the number of total HS allowed becomes. You get the most bang for the buck with 2 ships.

(For the purposes of gunboats, drones, and missile pods, each would count as 1 HS in this calculation, I think.)



As for WP Surveying, the following things are true. Plain old TL1 X can always be used to find any non-closed WP. HOWEVER, X cannot find Hidden and Shadowed WP types without software upgrades. (If you transit through a Hidden or Shadowed WP, you will know it and be able to find it without the upgrade. But surveying for Type B and C WP’s cannot be done until you have developed the software patch for each type, which would require engaging in a minor R&D development project, probably with minimal cost (effectively re-developing the X system). I’m assuming that if by chance you discover a Type C Shadowed WP before a Type B Hidden WP, developing the “Type C WP” software upgrade does NOT allow you to find Type B WP’s. I’m assuming that the signatures for the two types are very different and require two separate projects.

As for the actual WP surveying process, similar to the current SM#2 rules, you’d do a survey for Open WP’s, then a survey for the Hidden WP’s, then a survey for the Shadowed WP’s.

Comments?
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby tmul4050 on Thu 03 Jan 2013 23:08

I like it, nice and simple.
The only hassle I see is that how would the bugs have invaded in ISW4 if closed WP have such a small HS capacity.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby Crucis on Thu 03 Jan 2013 23:12

tmul4050 wrote:I like it, nice and simple.
The only hassle I see is that how would the bugs have invaded in ISW4 if closed WP have such a small HS capacity.



It is 100 PLUS 1d100 for Closed WP's, which would allow for Monitors, with a high enough die roll.

I could tweak the min sizes to be more like 150+, 250+, etc. to avoid WP's being too small. Nothing's set in stone here. But I like the framework of this idea. As you say, nice and simple.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby tmul4050 on Thu 03 Jan 2013 23:18

It looks good. Also it adds to the scariness of a closed warp invasion as it will already be deep inside your system
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby Crucis on Thu 03 Jan 2013 23:48

tmul4050 wrote:It looks good. Also it adds to the scariness of a closed warp invasion as it will already be deep inside your system


I could push Closed WP's out a bit further, possibly using a 3d10 die roll. But I'd have to balance it off by pulling Hidden and/or Shadowed WP's in a little closer, to maintain the overall average of about 20 sH.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby Crucis on Fri 04 Jan 2013 13:35

As I stated above, if there are concerns about how this WP table would meld with the Canon History, I could tweak the base capacities a little, so that it's less likely that there'd be WP's too small for ISW4-era monitors.

Here is a version of the original WP Type table with tweaked capacities.


Roll 1d10TypeVisibilityCapacity (in HS)Distance (in sH)
1-4AOpen400 + 1d100 (401-500 HS)18 + 2d6 (20-30); Ave.Dist. = 25
5-7BHidden320 + 1d100 (321-420 HS)9 + 2d10 (11-29); Ave.Dist. = 20
8-9CShadowed240 + 1d100 (241-340 HS)4 + 2d10 (6-24); Ave.Dist. = 15
10DClosed160 + 1d100 (161-260 HS)2d10 (2-20); Ave.Dist. = 11


Note that the capacity ranges of the WP types end up overlapping. This is interesting and maybe not a bad thing; I'm not quite sure yet. The underlying basic premise of this simplified WP Type table (both versions) is that the more visible the WP, the larger its capacity, the more distant it is from its star. And vice-versa, the less visible, the smaller the capacity, and the closer it is to its star. So this leaves me wondering if the overlap is a good thing or not.

Of course, this is all arbitrary anyways, and WP distances are already overlapping, so I suppose that there's really no harm in having a bit of overlap in capacities as well.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Fri 04 Jan 2013 17:46

Overall, the simplified table isn't bad. My only concern is the size and distance parameter for closed wp's as it relates to canon. In SaW every closed wp as at least 20 sH from its primary. They all has capacities of 300-500 HS of ships. I'm not sure how workable it is, but if closed wp's had the range and capacity parameters of hidden, it would almost exactly match the type 12-14 wp's from ISF.

One reason I don't like closed wp's being so far in is that it increases the chance that a race could literally stumble across one. Imagine a closed wp at 2 sH in an inhabited highly developed system (Sol, Centauris, Gormus, New Valkha etc.) With the sheer amount of in system traffic its almost inconceivable that a ship on a routine run wouldn't find one eventually. I would prefer closed wp's to be exceedingly difficult to locate short of making/observing transit. The closer the wp is to the core of the system, the greater the chance of observing a transit and locating the wp. Put that wp out in the hinterlands, so to speak, and you set up potential surprise invasions.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby Crucis on Fri 04 Jan 2013 19:47

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:Overall, the simplified table isn't bad. My only concern is the size and distance parameter for closed wp's as it relates to canon. In SaW every closed wp as at least 20 sH from its primary. They all has capacities of 300-500 HS of ships. I'm not sure how workable it is, but if closed wp's had the range and capacity parameters of hidden, it would almost exactly match the type 12-14 wp's from ISF.

One reason I don't like closed wp's being so far in is that it increases the chance that a race could literally stumble across one. Imagine a closed wp at 2 sH in an inhabited highly developed system (Sol, Centauris, Gormus, New Valkha etc.) With the sheer amount of in system traffic its almost inconceivable that a ship on a routine run wouldn't find one eventually. I would prefer closed wp's to be exceedingly difficult to locate short of making/observing transit. The closer the wp is to the core of the system, the greater the chance of observing a transit and locating the wp. Put that wp out in the hinterlands, so to speak, and you set up potential surprise invasions.


Alexei, capacity issues aside, did you look closely at the die rolls required for each WP type? They're not single d10's or d6's with flat outcome distributions. I used 2d10 or 2d6 because they have more bell curved distributions that are centered on the listed average distance. As for closed WP's, the chance of getting a WP at only 2 sH is 1%, at 3 sH is 2%, at 4 sH is 3%, and so on. With a 2d10 distance die roll, the chances of getting the extreme values is very small, while the chances of getting a result close to the average of 11 is fairly strong. I could change the die roll to 3d10 (3-30 sH) with an average roll of 16.5 sH and an even more extreme bell curve. But as I stated above, I'd then have to tweak the other distances to bring the overall average distance back close to 20 sH, which is an absolute must from my perspective.

As for capacities, I'm a little wary of messing with my basic premise too much, i.e. the more visible the WP, the larger its capacity, and the further it is from its star. (Of course, this premise is complete hooey in a starless nexus where there is no stellar mass at the "center" of the system, but what the heck.)


I'm also looking at the possibility of adding one more WP Type to exist between Type C (shadowed) and Closed WP's, bringing the total number of types to 5. I also might need to reconsider using a 1d100 for the WP Type die roll, because I want Opens to be by far the most common, with Hidden's not too far behind.


Here's an example of what a 5 WP types Table might look like.

Roll 1d10TypeVisibilityCapacity (in HS)Distance (in sH)
1-5AOpen400 + 1d100 (401-500 HS)18 + 2d6 (20-30); Ave.Dist. = 25
6-7BHidden320 + 1d100 (321-420 HS)12 + 2d6 (14-24); Ave.Dist. = 19
8CShadowed240 + 1d100 (241-340 HS)6 + 2d6 (8-18); Ave.Dist. = 13
9DMasked160 + 1d100 (161-260 HS)2d6 (2-12); Ave.Dist. = 7
10EClosed200 + (1d100 * 2) (202-400 HS)3d10 (3-30); Ave.Dist. = 16


As for Closed WP capacities, I could also go with 200 + (1d100 * 3) for a range of 203-500 HS, or get really nasty and use 100 + (1d100 * 4) for a range of 104-500 HS.

That's it for now...
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby Dawn Falcon on Fri 04 Jan 2013 20:23

To be fair, I think you'll need to offer an optional rule of using multiple transit impulses for larger ships. I know it's not canon, but it's a very common rule mod in story campaigns, so...
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Re: Warp Points, Take 2

Postby Crucis on Fri 04 Jan 2013 21:01

Dawn Falcon wrote:To be fair, I think you'll need to offer an optional rule of using multiple transit impulses for larger ships. I know it's not canon, but it's a very common rule mod in story campaigns, so...


I'm of two (or more) minds on this. On one hand, if people are already doing it, is it really necessary to include it in the rules? But on the other, including it would codify how the rules say it should be done (not that it's all that complicated).

I'll consider it.
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