Warp Points, Take 3

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Re: Warp Points, Take 3

Postby Cralis on Sat 23 Feb 2013 20:43

Crucis wrote:
Cralis wrote:We always ruled that when using the optional "1 MP at a time until all MP are exhausted" versus the 6 MP chart, there were as many transit pulses as there were MP. So using the chart, there were only 6. Using the other rule, if the max ship speed was 3, there was 3. If the max ship speed was 9, there was 9.


"We" as in your play group, or "we" as in SDS? Curious minds would like to know.


"We" as in the people I was playing with at the time. Different group then now :) In ULTRA/SSF there is a limit of 6 transit pulses (C4.01.3)
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Re: Warp Points, Take 3

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sat 23 Feb 2013 21:42

I'm fine with 6 transit pulses. Using a 30 second tactical turn it makes each transit pulse 5 seconds. Ships/smct/drones may well be able to move faster than speed 6, but the wp itself should need a brief amount of time to reset.

One other thing that seems to get overlooked in the discussion is that barring better engines, ships larger than BC will not be able to utilize all 6 transit pulses in most cases. The only exception I can see offhand is if a larger ship begins a turn in the wp hex and is allowed to move on impulse 1 for transit.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 3

Postby Crucis on Sun 24 Feb 2013 02:02

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:I'm fine with 6 transit pulses. Using a 30 second tactical turn it makes each transit pulse 5 seconds. Ships/smct/drones may well be able to move faster than speed 6, but the wp itself should need a brief amount of time to reset.


I don't think that it's so much about the WP resetting (or recovering from the temporary disruption caused by a transiting ship) than it is about saying that there might need to be a "window" for safely allowing ships to enter the WP without risk of a ST or accidentally ramming each other.

Regardless, I'm of two minds on the question. I understand the reasons for limiting it to 6 transit pulses, but at the same time, I dislike disallowing one of the best reasons for mounting engine tuners on BC's, CV's, or CV's (or SDF's) (though at the same time one might argue that that could be seen as "meta-gaming" the rules) as well as disallowing ES, CT, FG, or DD's from being able to be a 7th or 8th ship in a transit. (Or perhaps even more ships being allowed to transit in a single turn with different engines.)


One other thing that seems to get overlooked in the discussion is that barring better engines, ships larger than BC will not be able to utilize all 6 transit pulses in most cases. The only exception I can see offhand is if a larger ship begins a turn in the wp hex and is allowed to move on impulse 1 for transit.


Oh, I wouldn't say that that point is overlooked at all. I would suggest that this is a reason why ships like BB's or SD's might mount Engine Tuners to gain an extra point of tactical speed for this very purpose. But it wouldn't help out a MT with a max speed of 4 with I-drives. (Well, yes, you could get a 5th MT thru a WP, but not a 6th.)

Honestly though, this is one of those points where the game mechanics seem to me to not do a particularly good job of handling what would seem realistic. Let's say for example that you have 6 MT's you'd like to get thru a WP within a 30 second window. By the rules of the game, it can't happen. But in "reality", there seems to me no reason why a couple of the MT's couldn't just delay their movement a little to time their entry into the WP to occur 20 and 25 seconds after the first MT entered the WP.

But to allow this within the scope of the rules, you'd have to allow ships to delay the expenditure of their MP within the movement phase, which I tend to think would NOT be a good idea for a general rule with normal Starfire movement rules. That being said, I could see the possibility of making an exception strictly for transiting a WP. I think that to allow it in any other phase of the tactical game would simply be too complicated and create far more problems than it'd be worth.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 3

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sun 24 Feb 2013 06:22

Crucis wrote:Honestly though, this is one of those points where the game mechanics seem to me to not do a particularly good job of handling what would seem realistic. Let's say for example that you have 6 MT's you'd like to get thru a WP within a 30 second window. By the rules of the game, it can't happen. But in "reality", there seems to me no reason why a couple of the MT's couldn't just delay their movement a little to time their entry into the WP to occur 20 and 25 seconds after the first MT entered the WP.


I have no problem with delaying movement for transit purposes only.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 3

Postby tmul4050 on Mon 25 Feb 2013 06:54

Crucis, can I start a new topic or do you have to? I'm not certain if you would allow that. I have had some ideas on electronic warfare in star fire and none of the current topics cover it.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 3

Postby Crucis on Mon 25 Feb 2013 07:04

tmul4050 wrote:Crucis, can I start a new topic or do you have to? I'm not certain if you would allow that. I have had some ideas on electronic warfare in star fire and none of the current topics cover it.


Fire away... There's no limitation on who can start topics.
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Re: Warp Points, Take 3

Postby DaltonSpence on Sun 31 Mar 2013 17:31

Transit capacity is more properly a property of warp links than warp points. However, since the type of a WP may be affected by its local environment, pairing WPs of the same type should be done in the linking phase by including the following restriction: "Only warp points of the same type may be linked. If an odd number of WPs of the same type are generated, the odd WP out will link to outside the current map." (This could be a feature rather than a bug allowing for future expansions.)

As for artificial warp points, you could go the route of the "Kasugawa generator" of the latest Starfire books (with the name altered to protect the innocent :roll: ). It needed two matched units, each requiring an SM+ size vessel for transport, that when in different systems can not only create a new warp link between them, but can "dredge" existing ones to a larger capacity. (Whether it could do the reverse was not discussed. ;) ) It would be a twig off the Gravimetric Drive tree. There are several limitations* you might put on the device for play balance:
  • Synchronizing the units to activate at the same time could very difficult.
  • The ship using the unit may need to shut down its drive to do so, leaving it vulnerable to attack. [ NEW ]
  • The link could be temporary. It could either disappear at this point, or shrink one level at a time. This might be prevented by regular "dredging", unless ...
  • The link could be fragile. Either overloading it or trying to "dredge" it might cause it to collapse or change its characteristics unpredictably.
  • The link generated could be smaller than the ship carrying the generator. This could make it hard the get the generator home again. :lol:
* These limitations would be dependent on the generation of the device, with more advanced version being less limited.

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