Disapointed with Direction Change

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Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby Sunwolf on Tue 26 Mar 2013 05:10

I have to say that when I read that you were no longer going to stick with the original Starfire History for this version I was disapointed. To me that was the main purpose for this version and without that all it does is continue to fracture the base of Starfire gamers into even more camps and versions without any worthwhile gain.
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Tue 26 Mar 2013 15:47

The issue that I see with not changing direction is that no matter how you slice it you're going to run into issues with content that SDS may not have creative control of. By designing a system that is workable with existing storylines but it's own new canon I feel that we'll get the best of both worlds.
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby southwestforests on Tue 26 Mar 2013 19:50

And in a perhaps a too simplistic un-technical observation, it may be bad manners to base your product on other people's copyrighted content.
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby Crucis on Tue 26 Mar 2013 20:08

southwestforests wrote:And in a perhaps a too simplistic un-technical observation, it may be bad manners to base your product on other people's copyrighted content.


SWforests, actually, to the best of SDS's understanding, the Canon History belongs to SDS. It's only the characters from the novels that belong to Dave Weber and Steve White. But still I understand your point, and avoiding any risk of legal issues is a definite secondary benefit of going with a new history.
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby Cralis on Wed 27 Mar 2013 00:41

Sunwolf wrote:I have to say that when I read that you were no longer going to stick with the original Starfire History for this version I was disapointed. To me that was the main purpose for this version and without that all it does is continue to fracture the base of Starfire gamers into even more camps and versions without any worthwhile gain.


I don't think that it fractures the base of players as much as you make it sound. EVERY player-run campaign is a new story. The fiction attracts science fiction readers and the scenarios allow new players an avenue into the campaign game, but once there, nobody uses the fiction for their campaign. EVERY game is unique! That is one of the beauties of the STARFIRE system.

What fractured the base of players more than a decade ago was due to the activities of two people and a near complete shutout of CLASSIC STARFIRE. That doesn't exist today - we not only have re-released CLASSIC STARFIRE, but there are new novels being written by Steve White and Charles Gannon, and we welcome CLASSIC STARFIRE players to not only participate... but we've adopted Fred and Marvin has given him permission to revamp CLASSIC STARFIRE for new release!

Let me ask you this: why is the DW history important to you? Do you run the scenarios? Base campaigns on the history? How do YOU use it? Perhaps with answers to those questions I can better help you.

southwestforests wrote:And in a perhaps a too simplistic un-technical observation, it may be bad manners to base your product on other people's copyrighted content.


The truth is that the fault for this stems directly from Task Force Games. When they sold the rights to Marvin they failed to get David Weber's signature on the deal. A big portion of why GSF didn't continue the storyline and why it took so long to re-release CLASSIC STARFIRE had to do with that.

I sympathize with both of your positions, but I can't change what happened. I apologize it took me so long to realize we needed a background story (which was the driving force behind creating SOLAR STAFIRE)... it is necessary to attract players and for backdrop about why the rules work the way that they do. But we cannot go back to Weber's history.

Fred Burton is the original designer of the Star Union of Crucis and the 1st Crucian-Arachnid War (an original 3rd edition "luddite", if you will). He wants to revamp the 3rd edition system (CLASSIC STARFIRE) so that old players and new players alike will have something new and actively worked on to play with. Do you disagree with this goal?
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby SCC on Wed 27 Mar 2013 03:42

Cralis wrote:What fractured the base of players more than a decade ago was due to the activities of two people and a near complete shutout of CLASSIC STARFIRE. That doesn't exist today - we not only have re-released CLASSIC STARFIRE, but there are new novels being written by Steve White and Charles Gannon, and we welcome CLASSIC STARFIRE players to not only participate... but we've adopted Fred and Marvin has given him permission to revamp CLASSIC STARFIRE for new release!


What happened?
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby Vandervecken on Wed 27 Mar 2013 04:52

I dont think anyone really wants to go back and re-live those memories. I've played Starfire for a long, long time and I used to lurk any Starfire Forum that was findable. I remember the Flame-wars and I was only a peripheral casualty. It is really in the past and Starfire in all it's variations have come so far since then. I've seen worse stuff in Forums and Internet chats, but it did get personal. The clashes stopped being about the game. Maybe someone will say more, but it probably will only 'muck the midden'.
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby southwestforests on Wed 27 Mar 2013 05:10

I missed out on all that drama and am quite content to have missed and to be largely ignorant of it :)
Cralis wrote:Fred Burton ... He wants to revamp the 3rd edition system (CLASSIC STARFIRE) so that old players and new players alike will have something new and actively worked on to play with. Do you disagree with this goal?
Sounds quite practical, actually.
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby Crucis on Wed 27 Mar 2013 06:19

Vandervecken wrote:I don't think anyone really wants to go back and re-live those memories. I've played Starfire for a long, long time and I used to lurk any Starfire Forum that was findable. I remember the Flame-wars and I was only a peripheral casualty. It is really in the past and Starfire in all it's variations have come so far since then. I've seen worse stuff in Forums and Internet chats, but it did get personal. The clashes stopped being about the game. Maybe someone will say more, but it probably will only 'muck the midden'.



Personally, I hope that that no one does, or that if they feel the urge to fill SWforests in, they do so in a PM. It's not something that we need to relive here on this forum.
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Re: Disapointed with Direction Change

Postby Cralis on Wed 27 Mar 2013 08:35

Crucis wrote:
Vandervecken wrote:I don't think anyone really wants to go back and re-live those memories ... The clashes stopped being about the game. Maybe someone will say more, but it probably will only 'muck the midden'.


Personally, I hope that that no one does, or that if they feel the urge to fill SWforests in, they do so in a PM. It's not something that we need to relive here on this forum.


It won't happen, as I will actively moderate away any such talk. Suffice it to say that the old... flame war (generous you are Vandervecken :roll: ) is long gone. The point I was trying to make (without digging up the dead bodies) is that there is a LOT more to the history of STARFIRE and the decisions made over the last 10-15 years than most people realize.

southwestforests wrote:
cralis wrote:Fred Burton ... He wants to revamp the 3rd edition system (CLASSIC STARFIRE) so that old players and new players alike will have something new and actively worked on to play with. Do you disagree with this goal?


Sounds quite practical, actually.


And THAT, ultimately, is what I think is important.

One of the things I really like about STARFIRE is that it is so easily moldable for custom campaigns. We've had a rich history of player-run campaigns that are unique and interesting. From Kurt Blackwelder's Pheonix Campaign (viewforum.php?f=51) to Xveer's deWulf Universe (viewforum.php?f=19) to Procyon's family's Nemesis Campaign (viewforum.php?f=56)... and everything before, between, and after!

So many, in fact, that some have been lost to the interwebs in old, dead, websites.

Anyway, I personally think that Fred deserves the chance to prove his project. Do I wish we could continue CLASSIC STARFIRE's background history? Oh absolutely. But that ball is in Steve White's court and we'll just have to wait and see. But COSMIC STARFIRE will continue the look & feel of CLASSIC STARFIRE for those players who prefer that type of game.

Isn't diversity supposed to make everyone stronger? :)
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