Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby Dawn Falcon on Sat 22 Jun 2013 19:05

Crucis wrote:And at a higher end, 3E BB's were FT8, whereas in the current Cosmic hull table, BB's are only FT7. Of course, this isn't all that terrible, since it's only a difference of 1 FT#, but it was at least worth noting.


Well, half (FRU) is workable here.
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby Crucis on Sat 22 Jun 2013 19:12

Dawn Falcon wrote:
Crucis wrote:And at a higher end, 3E BB's were FT8, whereas in the current Cosmic hull table, BB's are only FT7. Of course, this isn't all that terrible, since it's only a difference of 1 FT#, but it was at least worth noting.


Well, half (FRU) is workable here.



So is no effect at all.
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby Dawn Falcon on Sat 22 Jun 2013 19:51

Yes, but again that's going to massively complicate transit effects, since if electronics are not affected... (and if cybernetics are good enough to handle things if there's an effect on Humans, they can also handle firing automatically on enemies!)

And really, you're still using a nuke to crack a nut here :/
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby Crucis on Mon 24 Jun 2013 15:20

Dawn Falcon wrote:Yes, but again that's going to massively complicate transit effects, since if electronics are not affected... (and if cybernetics are good enough to handle things if there's an effect on Humans, they can also handle firing automatically on enemies!)

And really, you're still using a nuke to crack a nut here :/


Nukes away!!! :D
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby SCC on Tue 25 Jun 2013 00:33

I'd still put the fluff down to crew size, we don't want people asking the wrong sort of questions
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby tmul4050 on Thu 18 Jul 2013 19:20

Its been very quiet lately ;)
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby Cralis on Thu 18 Jul 2013 21:16

tmul4050 wrote:Its been very quiet lately ;)


Crucis had to move and he doesn't have internet hooked up yet. I think he is supposed to have it hooked up this weekend.
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby Crucis on Fri 19 Jul 2013 09:51

Cralis wrote:
tmul4050 wrote:Its been very quiet lately ;)


Crucis had to move and he doesn't have internet hooked up yet. I think he is supposed to have it hooked up this weekend.


It should have been connected yesterday (Thursday), but it still isn't. And now I have no idea when it'll be connected. I am not amused.
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Fri 19 Jul 2013 18:35

Due to work and Shore Leave 35 I'm going to have very limited time online for about 3 weeks.
Charles Rosenberg.

Alexei Timoshenko is the name of my protagonist in the fanfics, although I wish it could have been me.
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Re: Jump Drives, Mines, Swarms, Hull Costs, etc.

Postby whartung on Wed 31 Jul 2013 22:47

So I was repatriating some boxes from our storage unit, and the good news was that I found the 3e Starfire and Imperial Starfire boxes. The bad news was that they contained maps and counters, but no rules. I manage to find the Imperial Starfire rules later, in a very odd place, and even more odd, not next to the actual Starfire rules.

But also interesting I found Stars at War, Crusade, and Alkelda Dawn.

I read through the Alkelda Dawn jump rules and their 100 hex RADIUS jump scatter (!!).

It made me curious if anyone has ever played a large WP assault with the jump rules and contrasted it with the normal WP assault rules.

If we consider WPs as solely a game mechanic what do they offer? They offer the capability for there to be a physical border in space. They offer a bit of high ground to a defender to give them some advantage against an invader. Your defenders can offer more bang/buck in the specialized circumstance of a warp point assault. In this case the WP acts as a force multiplier for the defender. It also acts to the detriment of the attacker via the warp point affects (increasing the defenders capability, albeit indirectly).

However, in the end, as with any static defense, the attacker can circumvent the obstacle, it simply becomes an issue of how much more he must spend to do so.

The jump drive makes the WP much more porous. The WP is no longer really a multiplier for the defender, no more cheap units, no more space control and force concentration. But it is still a detriment to the attacker, by still applying the transit affect, but, more notably scattering the fleet. The one advantage the attacker has is that the WP no longer has a volume limit. The entire attack fleet can appear at once, albeit potentially very widely scattered.

The defender is still obliged to guard the WP, it is obliged to picket ostensibly with a large, fast, reserve force, ideally uniformly distributed in combat groups to be able to quickly react and start bringing focused fire upon and destroying the attackers in detail. The attackers arrive weakened and it behooves the defender to leverage that rather than staging near potential targets and closing on the attackers in deep space after they have recovered and regrouped from the transit.

The downside is that the 100 hex radius is a HUGE space to cover, and that advantage will only last a short time. Its easy to see the attacking force cluster around the slow movers as the fast ships regroup to bring the screening forces in to play. In the short term, you''ll have the ad hoc attacking clusters maneuvering and responding to the organized and assembled defending battle groups. For example, it's safe to assume Datalink will be nay useless to the attacking forces early on in with the link groups scattered across space, out of range. In contrast the defender will be linked and maneuvering in formation immediately.

As time passes the attacking force gets, as a whole attack force, more organized and stronger.

The question becomes, as a mechanic, how expensive will the assault be. For example, if you have two equal fleets, one attacking, one defending, the defender would likely win that engagement, but at what cost. And what multiplier above the defending force does an attacker need to assure success. And how does that multiplier change based on the force sizes.

For example, a single defender against a single attacker is effectively no defense at all. The attacker will likely appear out of range of the defender and will be able to control the range well enough to return to full operational status and then can decide to engage the other ship or simply run away. But throw two fleets with a a few thousand hull spaces at each other, and the problem is distinctly different.

I bring up the cost of the assault, and the cost of the defense because it acts as a solid metric to contrast the jump drive assault vs the normal WP assault, and can be used to potentially tweak the rules to make the two styles of assault "equally" expensive, for the attacker, in the large sense, yet completely different in flavor operationally.

You can change jump radius on entry, change WP affect and duration on intruders, perhaps other things as tuning parameters.

But I was just curious if anyone has experience with a large jump assault and what the outcome was like, if they got a feel for it in these terms.
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