Starfire without WP's?

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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby Glaive7 on Wed 18 Jul 2012 09:00

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:I can see the possibilities in a true 3d environment. The question becomes how to have zenith/nadir points in an effective xy plane.


In another game I got away with not worrying about the 3d environment. I instead just assumed that battles took place at the Zenith/Nadir points, in open space (between the Zenith/Nadir points and the planetary plane), or near the planetary plane (usually at a planet that you couldn't afford to lose). Abstract I know, but with StMPs you might be able to do something similar.

A problem I can see that I don't think has been addressed yet, is that if there were no warp points to look for, then survey time would be drastically reduced. You could increase the time needed to survey planets, or just give a generic amount of time needed to survey the system plus the planetary surveys, but whatever was used it would probably mean less survey ships and thus more funds for other endeavors (including more warships). I am not saying that is necessarily a good thing, it's just something I thought of as a side effect. I might cause more warships to carry science instruments so that when they are not engaged in a fight they could be surveying systems.
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Wed 18 Jul 2012 20:00

You could still have multiple wps. Just cluster them at the Zenith/Nadir. It would make them similar to the wormholes from Honor Harrington. Perhaps make some systems nodal like Manticore and others like the junction termini. A node system will have multiple termini but a terminus would only connect to a single node.
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby Dawn Falcon on Sat 21 Jul 2012 22:06

Glaive7 wrote:A problem I can see that I don't think has been addressed yet, is that if there were no warp points to look for, then survey time would be drastically reduced.


That's another reason I favour having "warp zones", which you need to survey for. It also retains the 1-1 system links, and avoids the any-to-any problem of defending in a Battletech-like jump universe. (Especially if the enemy are willing to go via a non-obvious route!)
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sat 21 Jul 2012 23:09

Even with a warp zone survey time should be reduced somewhat as you have a smaller volume of space to cover.
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby Glaive7 on Sun 22 Jul 2012 00:00

Dawn Falcon wrote:It also retains the 1-1 system links, and avoids the any-to-any problem of defending in a Battletech-like jump universe. (Especially if the enemy are willing to go via a non-obvious route!)
[/quote]

While I see the attraction to 1 -1 system links, and I even accept them for this game, I like the feel of a more free flowing front where you can not concentrate all your forces in one choke point. Admirals challenge is an acceptable middle ground as well. WP clustered and from each of the surrounding hexes. Thus you can have some degree of fixed defenses, and yet you also have to spread out somewhat.
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sun 22 Jul 2012 04:05

I think what Dawn means is 1 point accessing 1 system not effectively having a linear setup. The key is having 2 zones where your connections are, similar to the way things work in Honor Harrington.
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby Glaive7 on Sun 22 Jul 2012 05:50

Still haven't read those books....grrr. :roll:
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sun 22 Jul 2012 06:14

The older books were better IMO. I liked it where the focus was on Honor Harrington where the war was a background theme. Now the war with Mesa is the focus and the individual characters are getting lost in the background.
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby Dawn Falcon on Sun 22 Jul 2012 07:32

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:Even with a warp zone survey time should be reduced somewhat as you have a smaller volume of space to cover.


Not really, I'd generate them just like WP's, although unlike wp's, WZ's would rotate with the solar system.

Without the ability to use forts as WP defences, the game does feel more free flowing anyway afaik. There are other options (less cost effective, true), like BS which can deploy a cloud of Drone2's against enemy ships entering the zone they defend...

You can also do "realspace" mapping and bump up the number of links per system. If the average system has 4-5 links...
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Re: Starfire without WP's?

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sun 22 Jul 2012 15:27

I like the idea of a rotating wp/zone etc. The more I think about it the less sense a stationary point makes. In game terms it may work, but in astronomic terms it presents issues. If you look at a star's motion through space its position through space relative to a fixed point will change over time. In the course of a campaign it might change less than a tH which has no effect. Over several millenia the position change could be several system hexes.
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