R&D questions in Admiral's Challenge

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R&D questions in Admiral's Challenge

Postby JoeBuckeye on Tue 28 Dec 2010 10:40

I used to play Starfire but stopped for a few years. The latest version of the rules I have is ULTRA-9-2005.

For some reason I decided to get back into the game by running a small solo Admiral's Challenge game. I realize that AC may not be supported very well but I just wanted a simple way to get back into the groove of things.

As I was setting up my game and going through the R&D stuff (which is much, much simpler than regular) I noticed that it appears that the Critical and Hazardous indicators don't really mean anything in AC R&D. This is mainly because in AC there is no SL research but also because in AC R&D projects are completed when you reach their RP target the project is done. There is no success roll so there is no chance for the Critical or Hazardous rolls to mean anything. I guess they could still be done when the RP target is reached.

This is probably not a big deal as you only do Tech development in AC and not SL research and there are very few Critical or Hazardous Tech projects. The Gunboat and Fighter projects are the main ones through.

Project startup costs for some items are also hard to figure since they are Unit Cost * 15. For example, what would the Startup Cost be for the Lnk2 upgrade? Since there is no actual tech item how is this computed?

For the Fighter and Gunboat projects I would just add up the costs for the items you get from the project (FQa/GBa, (Bfa/Bga) and (BLa)) and multiply that by 15.

Any way, I hope there is someone out there that might be able to give me some guidance on this.
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Re: R&D questions in Admiral's Challenge

Postby Cralis on Tue 28 Dec 2010 13:31

JoeBuckeye wrote:I used to play Starfire but stopped for a few years. The latest version of the rules I have is ULTRA-9-2005.

For some reason I decided to get back into the game by running a small solo Admiral's Challenge game. I realize that AC may not be supported very well but I just wanted a simple way to get back into the groove of things.


Admiral's Challenge is a good way to play a simple strategic game.

As I was setting up my game and going through the R&D stuff (which is much, much simpler than regular) I noticed that it appears that the Critical and Hazardous indicators don't really mean anything in AC R&D. This is mainly because in AC there is no SL research but also because in AC R&D projects are completed when you reach their RP target the project is done. There is no success roll so there is no chance for the Critical or Hazardous rolls to mean anything. I guess they could still be done when the RP target is reached.

This is probably not a big deal as you only do Tech development in AC and not SL research and there are very few Critical or Hazardous Tech projects. The Gunboat and Fighter projects are the main ones through.


Hmmm it appears that is true. I didn't think of the implications of no success rolls...

Project startup costs for some items are also hard to figure since they are Unit Cost * 15. For example, what would the Startup Cost be for the Lnk2 upgrade? Since there is no actual tech item how is this computed?


N6.04 says that an item without a specific cost has an effective cost of 50 + 20xSL.

For the Fighter and Gunboat projects I would just add up the costs for the items you get from the project (FQa/GBa, (Bfa/Bga) and (BLa)) and multiply that by 15.

Any way, I hope there is someone out there that might be able to give me some guidance on this.


You are on a STARFIRE forum, there better be someone who can help :-) Fortunately there are a number of very good players who are on this forum! I think PracticalM and Dazrand have both played Admiral's Challenge too.
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Re: R&D questions in Admiral's Challenge

Postby PracticalM on Tue 28 Dec 2010 15:13

Note: I don't actually have Admiral's Challenge but I have done something similar with a hex sheet and the Empire III rules.

I would use the Research cost for the Gunboat initial project x15. Expensive but I'm guessing that you pay that once and it's done.

I wouldn't bother with the hazardous and critical projects. I think it's the one thing in the Ultra rules that I've never been fond of and for Admiral's Challenge it won't be that bad to ignore them.

If you really want to simulate critical projects make the project take 1 or 2 turns longer to complete (roll randomly).

Hazardous is a bit trickier. When the project completes roll d100 and if you get one of the terrible results with it then put that into affect. On facility explosion apply the damage and let the research be complete in 1 or 2 turns.

Those are my best guesses but I don't think they are needed.
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Re: R&D questions in Admiral's Challenge

Postby JoeBuckeye on Tue 28 Dec 2010 15:35

N6.04 says that an item without a specific cost has an effective cost of 50 + 20xSL.


Ah, thanks, that helps. I hadn't gone through the all ULTRA R&D rules yet.

I would use the Research cost for the Gunboat initial project x15. Expensive but I'm guessing that you pay that once and it's done.


Since the Gunboat and Fighter initial projects each cost 500 RP that makes them both cost 7500 to start. Quite a bit of change and has my starting (1 system) income is 1000 MC that seems steep. But since I won't need to worry about that until EL 6 and 7 I'm sure the income will be much higher by then as EL research takes quite a bit of time.

I wouldn't bother with the hazardous and critical projects. I think it's the one thing in the Ultra rules that I've never been fond of and for Admiral's Challenge it won't be that bad to ignore them.

If you really want to simulate critical projects make the project take 1 or 2 turns longer to complete (roll randomly).

Hazardous is a bit trickier. When the project completes roll d100 and if you get one of the terrible results with it then put that into affect. On facility explosion apply the damage and let the research be complete in 1 or 2 turns.


I may do this but it is not a big deal since very few tech items are Critical or Hazardous, most of those indicators are on SL's.
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Re: R&D questions in Admiral's Challenge

Postby PracticalM on Tue 28 Dec 2010 16:45

Since the Gunboat and Fighter initial projects each cost 500 RP that makes them both cost 7500 to start. Quite a bit of change and has my starting (1 system) income is 1000 MC that seems steep. But since I won't need to worry about that until EL 6 and 7 I'm sure the income will be much higher by then as EL research takes quite a bit of time.


Remember you get the GBa (360), (Bga), (BLa) (60 each), and the Training facility so you don't save by doing them separately. The Fighter one could be cheaper if you have (BLa) already and fighters are cheaper. It should probably be 300 if you already have Gunboats.
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