Advanced Quick Start Rules

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Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby Cralis on Wed 12 Sep 2012 23:24

We've released the Advanced Quick Start Rules! Again Procyon has used his expertise to build an expansion with a few new technologies and more advanced scenarios, to introduce new players to datalink and point defense. You can check them out here.
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby TerryTigre on Tue 02 Oct 2012 15:08

I am currently using these as test scenarios for my computer version, and it looks like Scenario 5 Swarm attack is a bit unbalanced in favor of the Heavy Cruisers.

Going by HS alone, 5*16 HS is 80 HS, vs 2*60 HS is 120 HS. Granted, when in the blindspot of a CA the corvettes wont take damage, but the problem seems to be that not enough survive long enough to get to that blindspot.

Once inside the blindspot the other problem is that there are two heavy cruisers, so you cant be in both blind spots unlesss they maneuver really bad.

Anyway, thanks for the scenario, it is a pretty good one for improving the computer tactics...
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby krenshala on Tue 02 Oct 2012 18:23

TerryTigre wrote:I am currently using these as test scenarios for my computer version, and it looks like Scenario 5 Swarm attack is a bit unbalanced in favor of the Heavy Cruisers.

Going by HS alone, 5*16 HS is 80 HS, vs 2*60 HS is 120 HS. Granted, when in the blindspot of a CA the corvettes wont take damage, but the problem seems to be that not enough survive long enough to get to that blindspot.

Once inside the blindspot the other problem is that there are two heavy cruisers, so you cant be in both blind spots unlesss they maneuver really bad.

Anyway, thanks for the scenario, it is a pretty good one for improving the computer tactics...

Standard swarm tactics are to split up your force into two or three groups so you force your opponent to turn away from one, putting it's blindspot at risk from another. When done correctly, and luck works for you, the swarm can really chew up an opponent. Done incorrectly, and/or luck being very much against you, and your swarm units end up getting defeated in detail.
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Tue 02 Oct 2012 19:48

With anything close to parity in HS the swarm should win. In this case the swarm is at a severe disadvantage. The cruiser player should be able to cripple at least two of the CT's before they can get into position. After that it's split up to deny the remaining CT's uncontested blind spot attacks. Yes you'll take some damage but you should turn the swarm into scrap.
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby TerryTigre on Wed 03 Oct 2012 07:15

krenshala wrote:
TerryTigre wrote:I am currently using these as test scenarios for my computer version, and it looks like Scenario 5 Swarm attack is a bit unbalanced in favor of the Heavy Cruisers.

Going by HS alone, 5*16 HS is 80 HS, vs 2*60 HS is 120 HS. Granted, when in the blindspot of a CA the corvettes wont take damage, but the problem seems to be that not enough survive long enough to get to that blindspot.

Once inside the blindspot the other problem is that there are two heavy cruisers, so you cant be in both blind spots unlesss they maneuver really bad.

Anyway, thanks for the scenario, it is a pretty good one for improving the computer tactics...

Standard swarm tactics are to split up your force into two or three groups so you force your opponent to turn away from one, putting it's blindspot at risk from another. When done correctly, and luck works for you, the swarm can really chew up an opponent. Done incorrectly, and/or luck being very much against you, and your swarm units end up getting defeated in detail.



Um. Have you heard of the kaufmann retrogade tactic from SFB? If the Cruisers choose withdrawing as tactic the corvettes only gain about two hexes. They can turn with their last move, and with different blindspots at least one CA should fire every turn...
Status: 26 types of tech system. Working on fleet tactics. Added b generation weapons, including G, Gb. Possible to give Ships Movement Orders. Working on SysGenV2
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby Xveers on Wed 03 Oct 2012 18:29

TerryTigre wrote:
krenshala wrote:
TerryTigre wrote:I am currently using these as test scenarios for my computer version, and it looks like Scenario 5 Swarm attack is a bit unbalanced in favor of the Heavy Cruisers.

Going by HS alone, 5*16 HS is 80 HS, vs 2*60 HS is 120 HS. Granted, when in the blindspot of a CA the corvettes wont take damage, but the problem seems to be that not enough survive long enough to get to that blindspot.

Once inside the blindspot the other problem is that there are two heavy cruisers, so you cant be in both blind spots unlesss they maneuver really bad.

Anyway, thanks for the scenario, it is a pretty good one for improving the computer tactics...

Standard swarm tactics are to split up your force into two or three groups so you force your opponent to turn away from one, putting it's blindspot at risk from another. When done correctly, and luck works for you, the swarm can really chew up an opponent. Done incorrectly, and/or luck being very much against you, and your swarm units end up getting defeated in detail.


Um. Have you heard of the kaufmann retrogade tactic from SFB? If the Cruisers choose withdrawing as tactic the corvettes only gain about two hexes. They can turn with their last move, and with different blindspots at least one CA should fire every turn...


The Kaufmann retrogade dosen't work in Starfire because ships cannot go in reverse.
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Wed 03 Oct 2012 19:06

Retrograde no, but the CA's can keep the range open while they pound the CT's.
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby TerryTigre on Wed 03 Oct 2012 19:46

With the blind spot only 60 degrees for I ships, you can move away from the enemy while keeping him out of your blindspot, thus enabling firing at the enemy. Firing at the enemy while keeping the range open is the essence of the kaufman retrogade. In SFB it is done in reverse because the weapons are generally facing forward. But the weapon arcs in Starfire are generally 300 degrees instead of for example 120 degrees.

Any attempt to outflank you just insures that some ships will always be out of your blindspots.

The key to do this succesfully is making sure your turnmode is satisfied at the end of your move, and then turning after the last movement point to make sure some ships are out of your blind spots. Some ships may be able to straddle the blindspot hex spine, so turning in that direction allows them to still get in your blindspot. But turning into the other direction insures that they cant reach your blindspot, unless they are very fast and very close.

As an example, in that situation they need 4 speed advantage at range 4 to still reach the blindspot.

If the enemy ships are near near the center of your blind spot area they can reach the blind spot no matter which way you turn if they are fast and close. At range 8 they would need a 4-5 speed advantage to do this. Even so they are near the hex spine the next turn, so that staying in the blind spot for two turns in a row is difficult.

I submit that Starfire ships can do the retrogade better than most SFB ships as most long ranged weapon keep a much higher precentage of their damage output at range. In SFB it worked so well because of the photon torpedo, which did lots of damage at range. Well a regular missile in Starfire does 100% of its normal damage when it reaches its maximum to hit number.

For a example how this tactic works, see some of Murakuma battles in the novel In Death Ground...
Granted the bugs were slower there, but the tonnage ratio wasnt anywhere near equal...

Also in the CA vs CT case, the CT's are quite fragile, and when they lose even one engine they cant get close to the CA's. Mounting a single weapon makes them a bit sturdier, but doubles the time they need to knock at least one CA out.
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Wed 03 Oct 2012 20:47

TerryTigre wrote:For a example how this tactic works, see some of Murakuma battles in the novel In Death Ground...
Granted the bugs were slower there, but the tonnage ratio wasnt anywhere near equal...


While it doesn't explicitly state it, I think the tugs were used to keep the BS's out of CM range as long as possible. That way the TFN had uncontested attacks on the bug fleet. Note that in several battles once the BS's/BCR's were out of ammo, they ran for the colliers, resupplied and returned for the next round.
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Re: Advanced Quick Start Rules

Postby krenshala on Thu 04 Oct 2012 19:02

While these tactics you mention work, they work best when you have the speed advantage, or at least parity, versus the smaller ships. Even that may not be enough against a canny opponent who knows how to use two or three groups of ships to herd you the direction he wants.
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