History Page

Official STARFIRE history based on ULTRA STARFIRE! We are just getting started, so come inside and see the teaser. More on the STARFIRE Stories Page

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Re: History Page

Postby smkeyes on Sat 27 Nov 2010 20:52

[quote="Cralis*rubs hands together*

This will be an interesting history!

PS. Crime is an interesting subject. Would it be less prevalent because it would be deemed irresponsible behavior? Or would it be more prevalent because the government would take it upon itself to retrain the criminal, teach them new skills, get them counseling, or pretty much anything except make them pay for the crime (vengeance is not a fair or responsible behavior, therefore punishment as a means of correction would pretty much be out).

Also how about organized crime? Or conspiracy? Would those be more or less likely in this type of environment?[/quote]

Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers comes to mind a little when I read the History and phlisophy of the TSU. Both where decomacracys where personal and social resposibility are prominent. I wounder if yours like his would keep capital and corpal punishment for nearly the same reasons though.

Pain is a survival instinct.
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Re: History Page

Postby Rhishisikk on Wed 01 Dec 2010 17:59

Actually, the problem with crime is that you never get rid of the 2% of the population that is just not emotionally connected the way the rest of us are. MOST of that 2% go through their lives being normal people. A minority of that 2% become serial criminals.

Why is such a small percentage significant? They gravitate to positions where their amoral nature is tolerated, or even expected. In short, to the military services. StarFire is based on wet navies and marine forces - historically the forces most tolerant of such behavior.

So, side effect. As the empire forms a space navy, it brings in the practices of the wet navy - including a tolerance for smugglers, grifters, and other criminals - as long as they don't prey upon the navy. Ever notice that the rules presume your armed forces revert to the practice of looting to supply the war effort as a default behavior even though they're supplied by the H the fleet brings in?

So crime doesn't really go away, it just becomes officially sanctioned.
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Re: History Page

Postby smkeyes on Wed 01 Dec 2010 22:09

Rhishisikk wrote:Actually, the problem with crime is that you never get rid of the 2% of the population that is just not emotionally connected the way the rest of us are. MOST of that 2% go through their lives being normal people. A minority of that 2% become serial criminals.

Why is such a small percentage significant? They gravitate to positions where their amoral nature is tolerated, or even expected. In short, to the military services. StarFire is based on wet navies and marine forces - historically the forces most tolerant of such behavior.

So, side effect. As the empire forms a space navy, it brings in the practices of the wet navy - including a tolerance for smugglers, grifters, and other criminals - as long as they don't prey upon the navy. Ever notice that the rules presume your armed forces revert to the practice of looting to supply the war effort as a default behavior even though they're supplied by the H the fleet brings in?

So crime doesn't really go away, it just becomes officially sanctioned.


Being an ex member of the Military I find your remarks highly insulting. If anything crime is very low in military units due to the draconian by civilian stadards of the UCMJ. Uniform Code of Military Justice.
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Re: History Page

Postby Cralis on Wed 01 Dec 2010 22:27

Seconded. As a prior service United States Marine, with the exception of "creative gear appropriation," I can tell you that there is very little actual crime in the services. And when it was found out, it was dealt with quickly and severely. None of this wussy civilian hand slapping crap.

When I was waiting to get shipped off after signing up, I couldn't tell you the number of people that the Marine Corps Recruiters turned down because of criminal histories. They just don't put up with it. Do something stupid? They might give you a chance. Beat your wife or sell dope? You might not make it out the recruiter's door intact.

If you have stats then present them. Otherwise you might save the fiction for an alien race...
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Re: History Page

Postby Rhishisikk on Sun 26 Dec 2010 01:41

I was including 'creative logistics', 'simple hazardous waste disposal', 'mutual combat with spouses', and other things that command turns a blind eye to unless they become publicized. In matters of what most civilians consider actual crimes, the most current statistics are that .00131% of service members (oddly enough, led by white-collar criminals in the Air Force, something I was NOT expecting) are criminals versus .021% (also much lower than I expected) of civilians.

So I officially apologize to all offended by my earlier post. In spite of my personal experiences in the Army, it appears that I was just in a bad unit - the armed forces, in general, have nearly 1/20 the criminals of the civilian world. Crime appears only to thrive in those units where:
1) standards are not enforced (or are 'buffet-line' enforced; some enforced, others ignored, individual leader's choice)
2) 'just get it done' is still a legal order (meaning get it done by any means - ANY means)
3) where 'undocumented infractions' don't exist
4) strong leadership is lacking (ideal appears to be 'tough but fair' combined with 'zero drug and DUI tolerance')
5) punishment is usually decided by first-line supervisors; infractions generally not reported higher up the chain
In other words, units where the command structure exists in name only. Statistics also indicate that such environments are being cleaned up since 2001.

So I formally apologize: the actual statistics do not support my erroneous position.
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Re: History Page

Postby krenshala on Sun 26 Dec 2010 13:44

I think it also goes to show that for someone that has to deal/live with it, it can seem to them that everyone behaves that way. Not quite the same topic, but when I worked for the computer company in escalations tech support I was always asked "so, which computer model do you recommend", and I had to answer with "I'm the wrong one to ask ... I only know about the problems, not what's working right. People don't call about computers that are working." ;)

The same goes for military units. I personally knew of three people, total, in my ten year USAF career that broke the law (ignoring the other five or six DUI first infractions). Two of the three were shoplifters, the third ... well, he took his work home with him some evenings -- did not go well for him when the bosses found out. The vast majority of the folks I interacted, worked and lived with wouldn't stoop the shoplifting, even if it was something they required but couldn't afford (and quite a few that qualified for welfare, needed it to properly support their families, but instead worked second, third, and in one case, fourth jobs to cover their needs (he had five kids)) let alone bigger crimes.
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Re: History Page

Postby Club on Sun 26 Dec 2010 18:25

Wonder how much of that is the mindset needed to sign up in the first place and to get through whatever screening is in place, how much is lack of opportunity, and how much is indoctrination/brainwashing (And I'm sorry if that term offends you, but it is, just for a good cause)

I'm also guessing that in the 60's and 70's era of conscription and taking recruits in liu of jail time, the statistics were much worse.
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Re: History Page

Postby Cirdan on Tue 08 Feb 2011 11:25

Hullo! I'd like to mention a number of inconsistencies in the history:

- The 2040-2050 entry places the first extrasolar colony on Alpha Centauri B-IV-1, called Olympus. Sierra Two Two, Capter 6 mentions Chiron, which is also an earth-like moon in Alpha Centauri... the system list only has 1 of those in there.

- The map 2050 includes EZ Aquarii (which then has to be 1 of the 4 new star systems surveyed 2040-2050, the other 3 being YZ Ceti, Wolf 359 and Tau Ceti). The history entry for 2058 includes: "A third warp point is found in the Sol System, and it opens up to a set of star systems that are particularly rich in habitable worlds." This has to be EZ Aquirii. So, is 2040-50 or 2058 correct?

- Not necessarily inconsistent, but I believe the discovery of the Cyrcurra should be about 2 decades earlier... it's the next system in the "set of star systems that are particularly rich in habitable worlds" after EZ Aquarii, it seems unlikely that this world was only found in 2078, especially considering that there are 7 systems behind 61 Cygni still to be found & surveyed until 2086. Alternatively, you could change the concealed/open direction of the 61 Cygni - EZ Aquarii and the Tau Ceti-van Maanens Star warp connections, which would put 61 Cygni pretty much at the end of the line, but this also cuts off a lot of the habitable worlds until relatively late in the history.

- Apropros concealed warp points: most of them are missing in the systems list.
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Re: History Page

Postby Cralis on Tue 08 Feb 2011 19:32

Cirdan wrote:Hullo! I'd like to mention a number of inconsistencies in the history:

- The 2040-2050 entry places the first extrasolar colony on Alpha Centauri B-IV-1, called Olympus. Sierra Two Two, Capter 6 mentions Chiron, which is also an earth-like moon in Alpha Centauri... the system list only has 1 of those in there.


Actually, it is both names. Something that will be revealed in a later story.

- The map 2050 includes EZ Aquarii (which then has to be 1 of the 4 new star systems surveyed 2040-2050, the other 3 being YZ Ceti, Wolf 359 and Tau Ceti). The history entry for 2058 includes: "A third warp point is found in the Sol System, and it opens up to a set of star systems that are particularly rich in habitable worlds." This has to be EZ Aquirii. So, is 2040-50 or 2058 correct?


Actually, the first five systems surveyed are: YZ Ceti, Proxima Centauri, Alpha Centauri, Wolf 359, and Tau Ceti. The WP to EZ Aquarii was not discovered until a third re-survey in 2058, and is the sixth system surveyed.

Remember in ULTRA there is a chance that a WP will be "missed" during a survey. That is exactly what happened here.

- Not necessarily inconsistent, but I believe the discovery of the Cyrcurra should be about 2 decades earlier... it's the next system in the "set of star systems that are particularly rich in habitable worlds" after EZ Aquarii, it seems unlikely that this world was only found in 2078, especially considering that there are 7 systems behind 61 Cygni still to be found & surveyed until 2086. Alternatively, you could change the concealed/open direction of the 61 Cygni - EZ Aquarii and the Tau Ceti-van Maanens Star warp connections, which would put 61 Cygni pretty much at the end of the line, but this also cuts off a lot of the habitable worlds until relatively late in the history.


The WP to 61 Cygni was not discovered until 2078. And what isn't written in the history, is that 61 Cygnia was discovered from Altair as the WP in EZ Aquarii was missed during the first two surveys. There are some parts of the history (like this) that will become more evident after I get time to make the new TSU and SNN pages and start adding pieces of the history to them.

- Apropros concealed warp points: most of them are missing in the systems list.


I just looked, and I didn't see any "undiscovered" WPs on the list. If I missed one please point it out! There is a LOT more stuff on the master map and I checked two or three times to make sure I didn't accidentally make stuff visible that hasn't been discovered at the given time period!!

BTW THANK YOU for the feedback. With the focus on keeping the new rules on schedule I've been delayed in getting more material out. This is something that I intend to remedy here VERY shortly. I already have parts of the next story outlined, but I have decided to get more of the beginning history (along with the new pages) out first so that many of these types of questions can be answered, and everyone can get a better feel for how the Solar Union operates as a society.

EDIT: Welcome to the board Cirdan! You might check out the who's here topic where you can learn more about other players on the board, and post a little about yourself.
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Re: History Page

Postby BillW on Tue 08 Feb 2011 19:42

Cralis wrote:With the focus on keeping the new rules on schedule I've been delayed in getting more material out. This is something that I intend to remedy here VERY shortly. I already have parts of the next story outlined, but I have decided to get more of the beginning history (along with the new pages) out first so that many of these types of questions can be answered, and everyone can get a better feel for how the Solar Union operates as a society.


Looking forward to reading the next parts of the story.

BTW, welcome to Cirdan, it's good to see a new poster. Hope to see you move from Shuttle pilot to being in command of larger craft soon. :D
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