General clarification questions

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General clarification questions

Postby GunBunny on Tue 14 Mar 2017 11:05

Hello All,

I have a few clarification questions about the rules:

1) (AC), for cost its states 5%H, is this 5% of only Hold space cost or was it intended to be HS? I have looked at some peoples designs but cant seem to reverse engineer the cost out of designs. Can someone provide an example calc?

2) Colonization, for emplacement costs, does this apply to moving MORE colonists to already colonized worlds/moons? I have been paying this cost regardless in my solo campaign because I cant tweeze out of the rules whether you should if your just increasing pop size. I think it should be paid, as it would make sense when moving a large number of people that the existing infrastructure available at site probably is not enough.

3) Surveying rules for small craft, it says that for planetary surveys smcft use their own StMP. The tables in the technology section list gigs as having 1 StMP and st's Having 2 StMP. If I have a Planetary surveyor class (Speed 4) outfitted with Xa with 3 Bsa (2 gigs and 2 sts). Sample: Surveyor enters system (0 StMP) Travels to T planet (1 StMP), Begins Habitable survey:
Surveyor has 2 StMP remaining: 2 survey pts
2 st's w/2 StMP remaining: 8 survey pts (2 sp per craft/StMP)
2 gigs w/1 StMP remaining: 4 survey pts (2 sp per craft /Stmp)

Is this right? if not how should this go?

3) R&D
a) is there ever a reason to not pursue full RP on ANY project?
b) in tech trees that have a note for R&D cost (example Dual Module Enhancement (dme) SL2 in the notes it states "datalink point defense module [R&D cost 50]) Is this just paid for out of R&D budget and developed or do you need to emplace it in a RDS first?
c) For Twigs listing {k}{h} coming from another tree/branch (example: on energy beam SL2 has a twig with those listings) the {k}{h} only apply to the twig but not the SL tree for Ea correct?

I'm sure I have more but these have been bugging me lately. Thanks for the help in advance.

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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Whitecold on Tue 14 Mar 2017 13:18

GunBunny wrote:2) Colonization, for emplacement costs, does this apply to moving MORE colonists to already colonized worlds/moons? I have been paying this cost regardless in my solo campaign because I cant tweeze out of the rules whether you should if your just increasing pop size. I think it should be paid, as it would make sense when moving a large number of people that the existing infrastructure available at site probably is not enough.

Emplacement costs are paid whenever you move colonists, regardless if it is the first haul or increasing an existing colony.
3) Surveying rules for small craft, it says that for planetary surveys smcft use their own StMP. The tables in the technology section list gigs as having 1 StMP and st's Having 2 StMP. If I have a Planetary surveyor class (Speed 4) outfitted with Xa with 3 Bsa (2 gigs and 2 sts). Sample: Surveyor enters system (0 StMP) Travels to T planet (1 StMP), Begins Habitable survey:
Surveyor has 2 StMP remaining: 2 survey pts
2 st's w/2 StMP remaining: 8 survey pts (2 sp per craft/StMP)
2 gigs w/1 StMP remaining: 4 survey pts (2 sp per craft /Stmp)

Is this right? if not how should this go?

StMP represent some time. So if you spend the first two of four StMP moving, then half of the month is used up. So your surveyors can use only half their StMP (round down) for surveying.
Surveyor has 2 StMP remaining: 2 survey pts
2 st's w/1 StMP remaining: 4 survey pts (2 sp per craft/StMP)
2 gigs w/0 StMP remaining: 0 survey pts (2 sp per craft /Stmp)


3) R&D
a) is there ever a reason to not pursue full RP on ANY project?
b) in tech trees that have a note for R&D cost (example Dual Module Enhancement (dme) SL2 in the notes it states "datalink point defense module [R&D cost 50]) Is this just paid for out of R&D budget and developed or do you need to emplace it in a RDS first?
c) For Twigs listing {k}{h} coming from another tree/branch (example: on energy beam SL2 has a twig with those listings) the {k}{h} only apply to the twig but not the SL tree for Ea correct?

a) You have to know that. I sometimes reduced RP spending on ~50% advanced projects that got unlucky so far, and saved a few MCr.
b) Item developments have an 'item cost' parameter. The cost mentioned here is just what you enter there in the formula, as you cannot buy a dme system. It needs a regular item development project, like you would develop Da or Ib, Rca, etc.
c) The Modifiers should only apply to the twig if it is mentione in front of the twig. If it is listed like {k}8, then it applies to that SL instead.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Lomn on Tue 14 Mar 2017 14:10

GunBunny wrote: 1) (AC), for cost its states 5%H, is this 5% of only Hold space cost or was it intended to be HS? I have looked at some peoples designs but cant seem to reverse engineer the cost out of designs. Can someone provide an example calc?
Overall hull cost, not hold cost (see AA2). A 60 HS CA has a hull cost of 336; it has an (AC) cost of 16.8 (5% of 336).

4) R&D
a) is there ever a reason to not pursue full RP on ANY project?
In addition to the earlier reply, the success chance on most projects maxes out eventually. It makes unquestioned sense to reduce RP purchase if you can reach that limit (60% for EL, which is an auto-advance, or 80% on most others). But otherwise, the usual sort of reasons -- I need more money elsewhere, I like my current chance of success well enough, that sort of thing.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby GunBunny on Tue 14 Mar 2017 16:33

Thanks for the quick responses, they are really helpful.


Whitcold Wrote:

StMP represent some time. So if you spend the first two of four StMP moving, then half of the month is used up. So your surveyors can use only half their StMP (round down) for surveying.
Surveyor has 2 StMP remaining: 2 survey pts
2 st's w/1 StMP remaining: 4 survey pts (2 sp per craft/StMP)
2 gigs w/0 StMP remaining: 0 survey pts (2 sp per craft /Stmp)


Are we using the pulsed movement [C2.03.1] to compare? The reason I ask is in the pulsed movement chart a speed 4 unit starting on the other side of the WP, crosses the WP for no StMP, travels from the WP to the planet 1StMP (this is in the first pulse). If the carried small craft are bound to the parent craft then the speed 2 st's would still have both their StMP's (given in Pulsed move 2&4 for a speed 2) and the gigs would still have their 1 StMP (given in pulsed move 3 for a speed 1)

Or I could be reading this completely wrong( or just making it unnecessarily complicated) and if you use half you StMP you have used half of the strategic turn by the parent craft regardless of the pulse number.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Xveers on Wed 15 Mar 2017 00:31

GunBunny wrote:Are we using the pulsed movement [C2.03.1] to compare? The reason I ask is in the pulsed movement chart a speed 4 unit starting on the other side of the WP, crosses the WP for no StMP, travels from the WP to the planet 1StMP (this is in the first pulse). If the carried small craft are bound to the parent craft then the speed 2 st's would still have both their StMP's (given in Pulsed move 2&4 for a speed 2) and the gigs would still have their 1 StMP (given in pulsed move 3 for a speed 1)

Or I could be reading this completely wrong( or just making it unnecessarily complicated) and if you use half you StMP you have used half of the strategic turn by the parent craft regardless of the pulse number.


I think you're making it a bit more complicated than it really needs to be.

Now, I don't have my rules really handy and I'm going off memory, so this MAY be wrong. But it's also how I've been playing it and understood it to be played.

Generally speaking, 1 StMP gets you from anywhere in solar system A to anywhere in solar system B (the one exception being the Probe movement, which starts you at a warp point in A, drives into B past all the major obvious habitable planets, and then returns you to the warp point in A where you started).

For most things, this suffices just fine. When more precision is needed, or for example when you're doing something like "Move ships from A to B, then do stuff at B", I tend to use a more "days per StMP" bit of mechanic. Starfire assumes every month has 30 days. So a ship that has a strategic speed of 4 does 1 StMP per 7.5 days (30 / 4 = 7.5). In your example, we're driving over some small craft to a planet (or something). Your speed 2 small craft use 1 StMP per 15 days (30 / 2), and the gig uses 1 StMP over 30 days (30 / 1). So I'd look at how many days left does my ship have in the month? 30 - 7.5 = 22.5, and Starfire generally is Fractions round Down, so I have 22 days on-site. That means I'd have 1 StMP usable for my small craft (since 15 is less than the 22 available) but I wouldn't on the gig (since 30 is greater than 22).

Now, two things about this method that are worth noting. 1) It's a bit detail-oriented and more complex than the pulsed movement table, but it is more accurate. 2) I don't think it's technically correct in the rules :shock:

So, your milage may vary.

I've found it not TOO needed, however. It's a rather rare thing for things to get cut down to the wire that much in Starfire, and a good Spacemaster will generally allow most things that are logical if not QUITE in the spec of the rules (Myself, I'd comment that if you arrived at your destination wiht that much time left, your gig would be able to help with cargo transfers, personel movement, and other RP stuff, but it just isn't on station enough to help give you a point in surveying, since it needs a full StMP to do it).
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Lomn on Wed 15 Mar 2017 12:54

Pretty much what Xveers said. I GM survey matters on StMP-as-days because of my read on how, behind the scenes, you're covering X distance at a max of Y speed in order to hit hex after hex after hex for survey coverage, and so you really need 10 days to get one StMP of surveying done when your MSS is 3. The net effect is that a speed-4 MSS-3 ship is effectively speed-3 on months it is actively surveying, even if it spends part of the month in transit. The issue goes away with Xb and the bump to MSS-4.

For (I think) everything else, I ran strategic-level issues off the pulsed movement chart.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby GunBunny on Wed 15 Mar 2017 14:00

Thanks Xveers and Lomn,

I had to readjust my survey points in my test solo campaign to account for this. I'm trying to get as many rules clarifications out of the way in this solo play before any PBEM game commences. Hopefully it will remove any headaches for the SM coming from me. I also realized I violated the Bsa rules for my surveyor class (didn't realize there was a limit to Bsa numbers on regular hulls), which also readjusted my survey points.

Another Clarification: Governors
a) Never mind found this one while typing
b) when colonizing a new world, I see the rules state that its assumed it has a LG-1 administrator. I can find how to get more admirals in the rules (events, Battles etc) but not a straight forward way to get new governors unless it also happens on months/turns ending in 0.

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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Caplin on Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:04

Ooh, I can try this one :)

I think your question is answered in S4.02, you roll whenever your population reaches small or larger. On a 1-3, you create a new governor or promote your existing one.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Cralis on Wed 15 Mar 2017 21:09

GunBunny wrote:Hello All,


Howdy! And welcome!

Since so many players have done such a great job helping you already, I'm just going to try and help clarify a couple things.

2) Colonization, for emplacement costs, does this apply to moving MORE colonists to already colonized worlds/moons? I have been paying this cost regardless in my solo campaign because I cant tweeze out of the rules whether you should if your just increasing pop size. I think it should be paid, as it would make sense when moving a large number of people that the existing infrastructure available at site probably is not enough.


As others have said, you pay this cost and you are mostly correct on why. SSF does not make any distinction between colonizing a world for the first time and transferring population to an existing population. It's all colonization...

That said, there is an exception for evacuees in L5.04.3

3) Surveying rules for small craft, it says that for planetary surveys smcft use their own StMP. The tables in the technology section list gigs as having 1 StMP and st's Having 2 StMP. If I have a Planetary surveyor class (Speed 4) outfitted with Xa with 3 Bsa (2 gigs and 2 sts). Sample: Surveyor enters system (0 StMP) Travels to T planet (1 StMP), Begins Habitable survey:
Surveyor has 2 StMP remaining: 2 survey pts
2 st's w/2 StMP remaining: 8 survey pts (2 sp per craft/StMP)
2 gigs w/1 StMP remaining: 4 survey pts (2 sp per craft /Stmp)

Is this right? if not how should this go?


According to R3.01 point 2, this is correct. Gigs have 1 MSS and st have 3 MSS, but generate 2 sp per StMP. So you are correct. The survey ship has Xa, so it has 3 MSS and generates 1 sp per StMP, so with 2 StMP it generates 2 sp.

With just a cursory glance, it looks correct to me.

Btw, we don't normally separate "entering the system" from the movement that expends the actual StMP. We would normally say "enters the system and travels to the planet on the first StMP."

3) R&D
a) is there ever a reason to not pursue full RP on ANY project?


Very rarely. Usually only on the end of a project, as mentioned by several people. I have also seen players reduce their purchased RP when they are getting assisted RP in order to use the money elsewhere.

b) in tech trees that have a note for R&D cost (example Dual Module Enhancement (dme) SL2 in the notes it states "datalink point defense module [R&D cost 50]) Is this just paid for out of R&D budget and developed or do you need to emplace it in a RDS first?


N6.04 explains that some tech items don't have a fixed cost, so the "x" value for RP cost is listed in the tech trees (as you've seen).

c) For Twigs listing {k}{h} coming from another tree/branch (example: on energy beam SL2 has a twig with those listings) the {k}{h} only apply to the twig but not the SL tree for Ea correct?


Do you mean the External Beam Weapon Twig on the E tree at SL 4?

Yes, since the modifier is in the box for the twig, it requires those modifiers for opening that twig. If it applies to the SL, you'll see it next to the SL like in SL 8 of the same tree, which has a {k} knot of it's own.

I had to readjust my survey points in my test solo campaign to account for this. I'm trying to get as many rules clarifications out of the way in this solo play before any PBEM game commences. Hopefully it will remove any headaches for the SM coming from me. I also realized I violated the Bsa rules for my surveyor class (didn't realize there was a limit to Bsa numbers on regular hulls), which also readjusted my survey points.


It's a limit to the number of bays, whether they are cargo bays or shuttle bays it doesn't matter.

Another Clarification: Governors
a) Never mind found this one while typing
b) when colonizing a new world, I see the rules state that its assumed it has a LG-1 administrator.


Right. It's not an actual governor, but if it ever needs to be included that is the assumption.

I can find how to get more admirals in the rules (events, Battles etc) but not a straight forward way to get new governors unless it also happens on months/turns ending in 0.


Others have answered the "during growth of small or larger" answer... but what is the "months ending in 0" you are talking about?
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby GunBunny on Thu 16 Mar 2017 09:44

month ending in zero


This was in reference to generating admirals. S1.03.2
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