New Arc Ideas

Home of SOLAR STARFIRE, 6th edition, rules based on the upcoming history of the Terran Solar Union.

Moderators: SDS Members, SDS Owner

Forum rules
1. Nothing obscene.
2. No advertising or spamming.
3. No personal information. Mostly aimed at the posting of OTHER people's information.
4. No flame wars. We encourage debate, but it becomes a flame when insults fly and tempers flare.

Try to stick with the forum's topic. Threads that belong to another forum will be moved to that forum.

New Arc Ideas

Postby Vandervecken on Mon 29 May 2017 21:50

K weapons are rarely used by Player races, as they have some weaknesses in size, range, and weapon arcs. They do a great amount of damage if you can get them to hit, but even experienced players cannot use them very effectively when playing against a competent adversary. So if they are good at something like bombardment, that makes them more useful; and to those who see the big picture, and may not be discarded offhand as a Player races weapon choice. So please don't nerf them, without taking in the whole picture.
I weary of the chasssse. Wait for me. I will be mercccciful and quick.
User avatar
Vandervecken
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2012 20:21
Location: Minnesnowta

Re: Invasion questions

Postby Cralis on Tue 30 May 2017 01:44

Vandervecken wrote:K weapons are rarely used by Player races, as they have some weaknesses in size, range, and weapon arcs. They do a great amount of damage if you can get them to hit, but even experienced players cannot use them very effectively when playing against a competent adversary. So if they are good at something like bombardment, that makes them more useful; and to those who see the big picture, and may not be discarded offhand as a Player races weapon choice. So please don't nerf them, without taking in the whole picture.


K weapons can't be used like R or Pt. It takes a different style of fighting and completely different tactics to use effectively. I've seen it used well and it can be effective.

However, I have said before that I do recognize that it doesn't work for the majority of players. That was part of the reason for trying to come up with ideas like larger intermediate arcs that would fit between front, side, and turreted. Or making some tweaks on the HS requirements for the arcs. But have you ever tried using K guns, as they are right now, without the arc restrictions? They absolutely dominate. They become another R that does more damage at close range.

So I'm torn between two polarities here. I know that K can be used very effectively with different tactics. But I'd also like players to use them more. And I can't open them up completely because they would dominate. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure what the best move for K weapons would be without making them dominant and/or completely boring.
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: Invasion questions

Postby Elminster on Tue 30 May 2017 03:07

Cralis wrote:That was part of the reason for trying to come up with ideas like larger intermediate arcs that would fit between front, side, and turreted.

How about adding four additional arcs?

Atm we have
- Front (Spinal)
- Rear (Spinal)
- Left (Side)
- Right (Side)

I would add (all qualify for Side mounting)
- Front-Left
- Front-Right
- Rear-Left
- Rear-Right

Effectively rotating the side arcs one hex clockwise or counterclockwise.
Looking at the engineering side of this, it doesn't matter where a side mount is oriented to, right?
In memory of Gary Gygax
In memory of Leonard Nimoy
In memory of Christopher Lee

In memory of Albert Einstein
E = MC^2 + 1d10
User avatar
Elminster
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Tue 22 Jun 2010 00:54
Location: Ganderkesee, Germany

Re: Invasion questions

Postby Cralis on Tue 30 May 2017 13:30

Does it matter where the side arc points? That's a tricky question that delves into detailed specifics of the physical ship design that we have been ignoring. Does it matter for a ship that is a spere? Nope. Does it matter if the ship is a cube? Well... technically there would not be a front/rear arc as we define it. A rectangle or cylinder? Triangular? ... we ignore all of that and have a generalized rule.

So for the generalized rule I would say that the side-arc could point into the corners as you suggest. FR/FL or RR/RL could be used to make a ship that does oblique attacks. It would complicate arcs a little, but maybe it could be an optional rule?

But that's also not really what I'm talking about. These are still 60 and 90 degree arcs. I'm thinking that there should be a step between fixed and turreted arcs where you might have a swivel-type mount. Maybe with 120 or 180 degree arcs. They still require more space than a side-arc, but less than a turret. What do you think?
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: Invasion questions

Postby olivertheorem on Tue 30 May 2017 19:45

I like that idea, personally. Makes sense that if you can make a turret, you can make a "half-turret" too.
olivertheorem
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue 11 Jun 2013 02:41
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Invasion questions

Postby Elminster on Wed 31 May 2017 00:15

Maybe we should take this discussion to a new topic. ;)
In memory of Gary Gygax
In memory of Leonard Nimoy
In memory of Christopher Lee

In memory of Albert Einstein
E = MC^2 + 1d10
User avatar
Elminster
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Tue 22 Jun 2010 00:54
Location: Ganderkesee, Germany

Re: Invasion questions

Postby nukesnipe on Wed 31 May 2017 07:01

olivertheorem wrote:I like that idea, personally. Makes sense that if you can make a turret, you can make a "half-turret" too.


Commenting out of turn here. Would a "half-turret" be somewhat like a casement gun on an old battleship?

Image

I would suspect a casement gun would have to be a smaller, somewhat less powerful version of the rail gun.

Or, perhaps something like an old self-propelled gun that had limited swivel ability?
Image
Regards,

Scott Chisholm
nukesnipe
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed 28 Oct 2009 17:06
Location: Cresson, TX

Re: New Arc Ideas

Postby Cralis on Thu 01 Jun 2017 00:17

When I think of arc restricted weapons, you really are looking for weapons that are proportionately larger than the ship it's mounted on. A better example would be the missile corvettes that some navies used, like this Soviet Union Nanuchka class corvette:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... -09637.jpg
Image

As you can see, the missile launchers (and missiles) are large enough that it's all they can do to bolt them to the side of the ship, pointed straight forward. Another decent example of this were torpedo launchers on WW2 destroyers and PT boats:

https://ptboatred.files.wordpress.com/2 ... -model.jpg
Image

And if you wanted a land unit example for a gun, look at the mobile artillery:

https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpre ... xnnghy.jpg
Image

The artillery canons were so large (compared to the track that gave them mobility) that they were bolted to the top. Of course, it helped that they weren't expected to face combat directly so there was no need to make them more durable or capable in a direct-fire fight.

But honestly none of these are great examples for starships. A starship would be more like a submarine with a turret that could roll to bring the turret to bear above, below, left or right, and of course ahead or behind. And really arcs in Starfire mostly affect large weapons and kinetic guns because they require long runs that can only bend a few degrees along it's length. We don't have anything like that in real life today.

As for your example, there is one major difference. When you can roll your ship, just having a 180-degree arc of fire from your side mounted weapon is sufficient to allow you to point it in any direction of a sphere encircling your ship. So I imagine that most large weapons in Starfire are not in true turrets, but rather swivel mounts like your "casement cannon" example.
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 10496
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA


Return to Solar Starfire

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

cron