PCF

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PCF

Postby captnchuck on Thu 01 Jan 2015 09:56

What size in real world terms would you make them?
Divisions or Brigades?

I am working on a game for me and my friends. The space will be Starfire the ground a missmash of my own design
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Re: PCF

Postby Cralis on Thu 01 Jan 2015 14:37

captnchuck wrote:What size in real world terms would you make them?
Divisions or Brigades?


Manpower-wise, they are approximately company-sized. But you can have them be whatever you want.

I am working on a game for me and my friends. The space will be Starfire the ground a missmash of my own design


Cool! You should tell is all about it when you get it running!
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Re: PCF

Postby captnchuck on Thu 01 Jan 2015 17:41

Cool company wise makes it even better.

I am going to eventually put it on Vassal.

Space will be StarFire Box.

Ground is going to be a battleboard type system. I am stealing from BattleTech BattleForce 2 and the Block games.
There will be different types of units. The various races will have bonus to do maneuvers and types of units they use.
The start game will be Terran vs Khanate ISW 2. SO the Khanate will get bonuses when they try to flank and use light armor. Terrans smash a head with armor heavy units. There is going to be supply. 3 types ammo ,fuel and food.
Also, how many battles you need to win depend on both the size of the planet and the population.

I just want to know if this is going to be okay and noone will go after me for kit bashing a game I have no intention of making money on ,just having fun with.

I am doing this because in what like 20 years there has been even though there has been promise after promise of a Starfire ground system. I would have used Ogre but too tactical. Need it a bump up
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Re: PCF

Postby Cralis on Fri 02 Jan 2015 12:24

captnchuck wrote:Ground is going to be a battleboard type system. I am stealing from BattleTech BattleForce 2 and the Block games.

There will be different types of units. The various races will have bonus to do maneuvers and types of units they use.
The start game will be Terran vs Khanate ISW 2. SO the Khanate will get bonuses when they try to flank and use light armor. Terrans smash a head with armor heavy units. There is going to be supply. 3 types ammo ,fuel and food.
Also, how many battles you need to win depend on both the size of the planet and the population.


Ah, will focus be on total destruction ot capture & hold?

I just want to know if this is going to be okay and noone will go after me for kit bashing a game I have no intention of making money on ,just having fun with.


You can house modify all you want :) We actually encourage it. The only thing we can't allow is you selling stuff for the game without permission.

I am doing this because in what like 20 years there has been even though there has been promise after promise of a Starfire ground system. I would have used Ogre but too tactical. Need it a bump up


Groundfire was something Task Force Games talked about buy never made. Marvin's position is that orbital bombardment makes any meaningful ground forces useless, so never built a ground combat game.

As for Ogre, what do you mean "too tactical?"

And I do really love the Ogre Designer's Edition! :)
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Re: PCF

Postby captnchuck on Fri 02 Jan 2015 19:44

Okay you can kill off populations depending on your racial outlook and militancy but once word gets out all you are going to do is make enemy even more determined to kick your butt. Killing pops up to settlements are usually no big deal though.Remember even in the official history that when the alliance found the two lost Rigilian colonies they tried to reform them and not outright destroy them.

Okay onto the thinking about orbital bombardment being the end all be all. I don't agree with this for several reasons. The outright nuke weapons-you want to own the land sure you can use them but then the planet is no longer useful to you,you lose. Beam weapons. Laser deteriorate very fast going through atmosphere. Force and Primary Beams I do not see working because of how they are described. They are a tractor/presser beam so it needs to affect the gravity well ofthe planet, I can not see a simple weapon having the energy output ability to pierce a T or ST planets grav well.
So you either go in close and Nuke it or hit it with lasers doing 1 point a round. while you are doing that the T or ST planet that has a decent sized pop has a ground base that can hit you with all the weapons you cant ,so you have to send in the ground troops. You can knock out the bases but to control the planet you gotto land troops. I would not let space based weapons to target troops only bases or pop. Now Fighters and gunboats can but they got to enter the gravity well and can be shot at by not only the bases but air def PCF.

As to Ogre being too Tactical,it is a what you see being what you get type game. I want my smallest manuver unit on the battle board being the Battalion. That way I can have special smaller units like oh a company of special forces or a commander to lend a mod
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Re: PCF

Postby Cralis on Sat 03 Jan 2015 12:08

captnchuck wrote:Okay you can kill off populations depending on your racial outlook and militancy but once word gets out all you are going to do is make enemy even more determined to kick your butt. Killing pops up to settlements are usually no big deal though.Remember even in the official history that when the alliance found the two lost Rigilian colonies they tried to reform them and not outright destroy them.


Right, the genocide effect on diplomacy is already modeled in the rules.

Okay onto the thinking about orbital bombardment being the end all be all. I don't agree with this for several reasons. The outright nuke weapons-you want to own the land sure you can use them but then the planet is no longer useful to you,you lose. Beam weapons. Laser deteriorate very fast going through atmosphere. Force and Primary Beams I do not see working because of how they are described. They are a tractor/presser beam so it needs to affect the gravity well ofthe planet, I can not see a simple weapon having the energy output ability to pierce a T or ST planets grav well.


Conventional explosives can be VERY powerful. Ever heard of the MOAB? You can also use small nukes with precision to destroy targets without much fallout. If you want to kill population, just use neutron bombs and they leave very little radiation. And one interesting thing we've learned from the various nuclear weapons and accidents around the world is that the world isn't harmed by radiation as much as we thought (in fact, there is ample evidence to suggest that many humans might live longer in a slightly higher level of background radiation).

If I remember correctly, primary beams penetrate the atmosphere just fine. If you are using the 3rd Revised rules, it states in the first sentence of 04.10.01 that primary beams work in the atmosphere. But also, not every planet has an atmosphere...

So you either go in close and Nuke it or hit it with lasers doing 1 point a round. while you are doing that the T or ST planet that has a decent sized pop has a ground base that can hit you with all the weapons you cant ,so you have to send in the ground troops. You can knock out the bases but to control the planet you gotto land troops. I would not let space based weapons to target troops only bases or pop. Now Fighters and gunboats can but they got to enter the gravity well and can be shot at by not only the bases but air def PCF.


Other players have discussed using home rules that reduce max PU based on missile bombardment to simulate what you are talking about. That would require players to either genocide the planet and make it useless, or use ground combat :)

How do you intend to handle the construction and cost of the various ground unit types? Are you going to require them to build them specifically? Or choose them once the PCF land?

As to Ogre being too Tactical,it is a what you see being what you get type game. I want my smallest maneuver unit on the battle board being the Battalion. That way I can have special smaller units like oh a company of special forces or a commander to lend a mod


"lend a mod" ? I guess I still don't understand. Even Ogre has some specialized units that perform different functions, like Marines or GEVs.
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Re: PCF

Postby darbycmcd on Sat 03 Jan 2015 19:26

I am also really interested in this project. I was looking at Gurps Mass combat for some ideas about unit abilities and intermediate level combat.... let me know if there is something I can help with.
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Re: PCF

Postby captnchuck on Sat 03 Jan 2015 20:52

True conventional can be very powerful,just look at daisy cutters but they are not pin point weapons.
Once again you kill off the pop of high pop worlds and people are going to get mighty upset. I would have each ship have to roll militancy each round.

You can use ship weapons on planet but max one point of damage per round except for nukes.
On planets with out atmos things get even more hairy.

There will be various types of PCF,they are specified when built. As it is not going to be a pen and paper game be easy to track.
As the base unit is a battalion you might have a leader that can lend a bonus for you in city fighting but a neg in flanking moves.
I am going to"borrow" the rules from VG civil war and GDW FFW, leaders will have a ranking system, those who are more superior at each rank would have to be assigned and used before others, so you might not have the best leader for the situation at the time.

I didn't even think of the Gurps mass combat rules, thanks. Now I got more reading to do.
See I wish there was a puter game for Sci-fi like Norm Krogers OP art of War.

I am going to make it very detrimental to your future if you practice Genocide.
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Re: PCF

Postby Cralis on Sun 04 Jan 2015 01:02

captnchuck wrote:You can use ship weapons on planet but max one point of damage per round except for nukes.
On planets with out atmos things get even more hairy.


Just for perspective, a tactical turn is 30 seconds long. Each L or P can output 86,400 attacks per day. Depending upon the size of your fleet, you could have tens of dozens of these weapon systems, not even counting missiles.

Even if you have to shoot every enemy soldier individually, it won't take long.

If I were going to house rule something like this, I'd put a limit on how long they can fire and then enforce a "cool down period". Just keep in mind, this should apply to space battles as well as bombardment.
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Re: PCF

Postby captnchuck on Sun 04 Jan 2015 08:06

true but once again if they are firing at fixed installations like forts then fine but it is going to be really really hard to hit a PCF from space. POpulation easy but then you are going to have people getting upset with you unless you are insane freaks like the Rigilians.
Now you could have specialized space to surface missiles but you would need an observer to target it. I think the Genocide rules should go further,your own pops should start rebelling against you.
The best to hit I am giving a beam is going to be a 10, missile is 8 and that is with an observer on the ground
But the damage they are going to do is mostly going to be disruptions on military targets,ie PCF. Fixed stuff and pop is real damage.

I don't seem to recall in most sci fi fiction orbital bombardment taking out troops on a large scale except in Traveller and that is because of the liberal use of nukes due to the dampers and meson guns.
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