EVM vs PU/PTU

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EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Tue 25 Aug 2015 18:40

Hi All,

So as I read over ISF and SM2, I admit a part of me really likes the EVM system. It seems less fiddly to me over all than tracking PU/PTU every month. It also seems to make colonies more expensive to set up, or at least a bit more elaborate.

I'm wondering what people's real-world experiences are with both systems? I can't seem to find a lot of discussion of the older system here, since it obviously isn't available in Ultra or Solar. I wonder if I can get archives of the SF mailing list…
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Cralis on Tue 25 Aug 2015 21:23

Caplin wrote:So as I read over ISF and SM2, I admit a part of me really likes the EVM system. It seems less fiddly to me over all than tracking PU/PTU every month. It also seems to make colonies more expensive to set up, or at least a bit more elaborate.

I'm wondering what people's real-world experiences are with both systems? I can't seem to find a lot of discussion of the older system here, since it obviously isn't available in Ultra or Solar. I wonder if I can get archives of the SF mailing list…


EVM system is a multiplier. So without any additional cost, the income you generate increases with the changing multiplier. As a result, your income balloons in direct proportion to the multiplier.

The advantage of the PU system is that the income stays the same unless the number of PU increases. Thus, you aren't in danger of massive income-wide multiplications of your income. The downside, as many critics of the system have mentioned, is that your bonus PU from increasing your Economic Level (Tech Level for Classic Starfire) can be capped and lost if your planet is at maximum PU capacity.
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Tue 25 Aug 2015 22:12

That makes sense. I guess it's a bit unrealistic to see a sudden increase in income just because you had a tech advance, whatever that actually means.

I haven't had a lot of experience over the long term with either system, of course. :) Colonization certainly seems more difficult with things as they stand in ISF. Do people find that EVM-based empires tend to be smaller?

I like the sound of some of the other SM2 changes, such as the more aggressive NPRs, and StMP for strategic movement. I guess I can always use some and not others.
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Cralis on Wed 26 Aug 2015 02:08

Caplin wrote:That makes sense. I guess it's a bit unrealistic to see a sudden increase in income just because you had a tech advance, whatever that actually means.


Let's be fair... a tech advance realistically probably does act as a multiplier. It just causes what we call "runaway income" where your income advances so quickly it becomes hard to not have thousand ship fleets.

I haven't had a lot of experience over the long term with either system, of course. :) Colonization certainly seems more difficult with things as they stand in ISF. Do people find that EVM-based empires tend to be smaller?


It's all a function of growth over time. If I remember correctly, they do start smaller because growth to large populations takes a long time in ISF. But since your income is all multiplied, even the income from small populations starts to add up quickly.

I like the sound of some of the other SM2 changes, such as the more aggressive NPRs, and StMP for strategic movement. I guess I can always use some and not others.


Oh yeah!
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby LordKron on Sat 29 Aug 2015 08:46

The spot where EVM gets out of hand is large asteroid belts. The number of outposts you can have is insane. In my old campaigns we used to limit the amount of inhabited real estate at start to keep income on a fairly even footing.

We also tweaked the system generation parameters to increase the odds of finfing multiple habitable planers with a white primary, but that was before the findings of the last 20 years.
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Sat 29 Aug 2015 09:40

As an experiment I ran through system generation yesterday, and got a binary with a Type T. I scored on the REI, so the final GPV was 9750. Guess that's just how the dice roll, though it surprised me.

On an unrelated note, spaceports are shockingly cheap. Do folks tend to build them everywhere? I guess that's why the CFN automatically builds its terminal facilities… :)
I also got an asteroid belt, by the by. Not sure why my race would feel it had to leave… ;)
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby LordKron on Sat 29 Aug 2015 10:53

If that asteroid belt is the result of a planet being rubbled due to proximity of the secondary star, it should be large enough to provide a massive income boost at higher TL's. BTW, what stellar types were the primary and secondary?
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Sat 29 Aug 2015 15:14

LordKron wrote:If that asteroid belt is the result of a planet being rubbled due to proximity of the secondary star, it should be large enough to provide a massive income boost at higher TL's. BTW, what stellar types were the primary and secondary?


Yellow primary and red dwarf secondary. By the way, are their rules about size of an asteroid belt? I can't seem to find much, aside from how they're formed.

The one in my system was a gas giant consuming a planet, actually.
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Cralis on Sun 30 Aug 2015 03:17

Caplin wrote:Yellow primary and red dwarf secondary. By the way, are their rules about size of an asteroid belt? I can't seem to find much, aside from how they're formed.


One of the Classic Starfire players will probably remember the rule reference, but I think there were a number of outpost sized asteroids in every sH of the asteroid belt. So the larger the belt, the more outpost-sized belts.

I much prefer the way it was done in later versions of Starfire: (LM distance of Asteroid Belt) x 20 PU maximum. Treat as a single, desolate population. You could always house rule this into your game...

The one in my system was a gas giant consuming a planet, actually.


Sorry, when someone describes this as "consuming the previous planet"... it always cracks me up. I get a mental image of a Jupiter going pacman on another planet. That's not what happens, of course (in reality it disrupts the other planet's formation), but the image just won't leave me. *laugh*
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby LordKron on Sun 30 Aug 2015 07:01

3 outposts per hex.
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