EVM vs PU/PTU

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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Sun 30 Aug 2015 09:41

Ha. Glad i could give somebody a bit of amusement.

I guess where i'm not clear is what causes an AB to be larger than one SH in size, or larger or smaller than any other AB. Is there a formula for this, or is it an artifact of some rules I'm not noticing? I imagine this might all be a bit clearer if I laid out the system visually, perhaps. Wish I could find that audio map file…
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby LordKron on Sun 30 Aug 2015 15:16

AB is defined as a ring 1 system hex wide at the specified distance. For example an AB at 42 LM would consist of the ring of hexes 4 out from the star. Such an AB would thus have 24 total hexes, and the ability to have 72 outposts.

It's possible in systems with a white star or wide separation binary to generate AB's at 6-7 system hexes out and have multiple AB's in a system. That's the potential nightmare for explorers. Finding a hostile HT NPR with full exploitation of their home system. If you've read the novels, imagine if the Bugs in Home Hive Two had set up outposts on the moons and belts in addition to the 5 T planets. The income level goes off the scale fast, especially with good REI rolls.
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Sun 30 Aug 2015 17:44

Thanks. I think I'm following you now. Part of the problem is that my spatial reasoning isn't great. Hexes are fine visually but very weird to contemplate abstractly, and since I don't have a tactile hex map I'm kind of stuck doing that.

I guess I can probably just adopt the house rule mentioned up thread and say "screw it." :)
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Cralis on Mon 31 Aug 2015 02:29

Caplin wrote:Thanks. I think I'm following you now. Part of the problem is that my spatial reasoning isn't great. Hexes are fine visually but very weird to contemplate abstractly, and since I don't have a tactile hex map I'm kind of stuck doing that.


A System Hex is 12 LM wide. So the center of the first "ring of system hexes" consists of all the space from the center of the star, 0-12 LM out. The center of that ring is 6 LM distance.

The "next ring of system hexes", or the "second ring", is 13-24 LM, with the center at 18 LM. Third ring is 25-36 LM with the center at 30 LM. Etc.

So the forumula to determine the number of System Hexes INSIDE the ring is based on the "ring number"... so ring 1 is 6 * 1 = 6 system hexes. Ring 2 is 6 * 2 = 12 system hexes. Ring 3 is 6 * 3 = 18 system hexes. Etc.

Does that help visualize it?

I guess I can probably just adopt the house rule mentioned up thread and say "screw it." :)


Or that. I find that it's one of the best ideas for abstraction that Marvin has ever had.

Trying to track all those outposts really, really sucks when the ring is more than a few system hexes from the center. For example, if it's 10 system hexes out (or the "tenth ring of system hexes"... which is 108 LM - 120 LM distant), there are 10 * 6 = 60 system hexes in the ring. And at 3 outposts per hex, that's 180 outposts you have to track.

Too much work for me.
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Mon 31 Aug 2015 08:45

Cralis,

That definitely helps. I wasn't thinking of *all* the hexes covered by the rings, it just never occurred to me that that would be a larger number the farther out you went. I assumed AB had a bearing from the system primary too, and was confused. I guess they technically aren't single system bodies, so bearing isn't as meaningful.

Anyway, yeah, I think that house rule is probably a good idea. I've some unrelated questions about the interception map, among other things, but will create a new thread for those rather than derailing this one further. Thanks again. :)
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby LordKron on Thu 03 Sep 2015 16:23

The best way to envision the general concept of AB, is to look at our own solar system. The main belt has literally millions of objects. Several are big enough to have an outpost. In Starfire terms, the main belt would be 2 system hexes from the Sun. At that distance it could have up to 36 outposts. That actually matches up pretty well with the number of asteroids large enough to hold an outpost (Ceres might conceivably hold more than one). The Kuiper belt (too far out in game terms for ISF) has plenty of bodies large enough for at least outposts (Eris, Haumea, Makemake etc, if closer to the sun would probably have colonies).
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby Caplin on Thu 03 Sep 2015 16:31

LordKron wrote:The best way to envision the general concept of AB, is to look at our own solar system. The main belt has literally millions of objects. Several are big enough to have an outpost. In Starfire terms, the main belt would be 2 system hexes from the Sun. At that distance it could have up to 36 outposts. That actually matches up pretty well with the number of asteroids large enough to hold an outpost (Ceres might conceivably hold more than one). The Kuiper belt (too far out in game terms for ISF) has plenty of bodies large enough for at least outposts (Eris, Haumea, Makemake etc, if closer to the sun would probably have colonies).


I'm assuming 5 outposts per hex here, as stated in my copy of ISF. :) Are you working with a different assumption? Just wanted to check because I'm not sure where 36 comes from. Was this changed in a later product?

Otherwise, this all makes sense.
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Re: EVM vs PU/PTU

Postby LordKron on Thu 03 Sep 2015 16:57

I don't currently have a copy of ISF. Lost mine in a move years ago. If money permits, the Legacy CD is on my wish list.
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