Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Cralis on Fri 18 Aug 2017 18:09

While we may be willing to go back and correct the typos and incomplete parts of the scenario to make the rules whole, I've already stated that we are not going to rewrite it. So if you have some suggestions on what is necessary to make the scenario whole, that's great, but we are not going to fiddle with the designs or rebalance the scenarios. There are differences between the versions for a reason (some of which you note).
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Sun 20 Aug 2017 16:35

I don't disagree, and I've done my best to make sense of the scenario as written. However, we can't fill in the missing set-up information without regard for how it affects the balance of the scenario (if we choose an arbitrary set-up that makes it impossible for one side or the other to win, we're just making the scenario unplayable).

It doesn't help that the original authors didn't give us "historical" starting forces for Part II which would have allowed us to fix the scenario independent of Part I (Obviously, Part II assumes the Valkha transited the warp point, but we don't know in what condition). Getting a sense of how Part I plays out will help determine what set-up makes sense for Part II.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby coldsteel on Mon 21 Aug 2017 13:00

VX-134 wrote:I don't disagree, and I've done my best to make sense of the scenario as written. However, we can't fill in the missing set-up information without regard for how it affects the balance of the scenario (if we choose an arbitrary set-up that makes it impossible for one side or the other to win, we're just making the scenario unplayable).

It doesn't help that the original authors didn't give us "historical" starting forces for Part II which would have allowed us to fix the scenario independent of Part I (Obviously, Part II assumes the Valkha transited the warp point, but we don't know in what condition). Getting a sense of how Part I plays out will help determine what set-up makes sense for Part II.


Can you use the info from the SAW scenarioes for the Valkha?
TFN: 2 BC, 4 CA, 2 CL, 8 DD
RPSA: 2 CV, 4 CA, 2 CL, 8 DD
civilian: 4 'FTx' (made FT out of 40K Imp Guard flamer tanks)
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Mon 21 Aug 2017 18:34

The SAW version of Part 2 doesn’t define the Valkha’s condition. You have to play Part 1 first, same as 1st and 2nd edition.

A different approach would be to assume the Valkha starts Part 2 having met the minimal victory conditions for Part 1 which are (in 1st and 2nd edition):

“If the VALKHA exits the map via Warp Point 2 with at least 3 undestroyed engine units, 2 weapons (of any type) and any 5 other systems the Khanate player wins”

If so the Valkha would look like this at the start of Part 2.

BC1 (3) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxI(M3)FPWCDIII (4)

versus the convoy:

1x FG (2) SSSAAHWIIWIIII (6)
1x F3 (4) SSSSSAAA(Hx10)W(Hx10)L(Hx10)BHHDCIII (3)
2x F2 (4) SSSAA(Hx10)W(Hx5)B(Hx9)II (2)
6x F1 (4) SSA(Hx15)II (2)
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Cralis on Tue 22 Aug 2017 11:08

It would also have regenerated shields. But... can the Valkha win in that condition? If nothing ekse, if the freighters split up it wouldn't have the speed to catch more than one. And that FG is going rip the Valkha but good.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Vandervecken on Tue 22 Aug 2017 12:59

Cralis wrote:It would also have regenerated shields. But... can the Valkha win in that condition? If nothing ekse, if the freighters split up it wouldn't have the speed to catch more than one. And that FG is going rip the Valkha but good.


So what you are saying is that the BC is "Healed" between scenarios; and if not, what should players do if scenario part 1 is not played. (If playing Part 2 without doing part 1 is even an option at all) Just curious if someone could figure out an average amount of damage to inflict on the BC as a potential starting place for VX-134.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Cralis on Tue 22 Aug 2017 14:09

I would say "apply jury-rigged repair rule" but I don't remember if that existed in 2nd edition.

The rest would take a bit of playing to get a good feel for. Or, as you say, just state that we presume the two scenarios will always be played together.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Tue 22 Aug 2017 14:35

The second scenario begins immediately after the Valkha (or any Khanate ship) transits warp point 2 in the first scenario so it’s difficult to say whether the Valkha has had time to conduct any shield repairs (Yes – if the Terrans were completely defeated prior to transit, No-if the Valkha “ran the blockade” and made transit under fire).

I hadn’t thought about the freighters splitting up. The scenario seems to assume the freighters will seek refuge on the planet. It’s not clear if the original authors envisioned a “fixed” or “floating” map. If it’s a floating map (or if the freighters are allowed to leave the scenario from a fixed map edge), I agree it would be difficult to chase down many freighters (though this depends on how close the Valkha starts to the convoy).

The Valkha’s point defense should badly degrade the frigate’s firepower (provided the Valkha doesn’t close to gun range) but if the Valkha doesn’t manage to repair some shields before engaging the frigate even a few hits would rapidly reduce its capabilities. The F3 is actually a serious threat to the Valkha (at range 8 or less) since it has a laser and can damage the Valkha’s internal systems regardless of how many shields have been repaired.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Tue 22 Aug 2017 21:41

We should keep the victory conditions in mind. Victory (in Part II) goes to the player with the highest point total.

Khanate:
Each freighter destroyed: F1 = 1 point, F2 = 2 points, F3 = 3 points
Valkha able to exit the map via either warp point after at least 4 freighters destroyed= 5 points

Terrans:
Valkha destroyed = 5 points

Either player:
1 pt for each weapon destroyed on an enemy starship which entered from Part I (only the Valkha would qualify if no other ships came through the warp point). The Valkha has just 3 weapons if it only met the minimal victory conditions for Part I.

In this case, the maximum number of points the Terrans could earn would be 8 (3 weapons + Valkha destroyed)
The maxmum number the Khanate could earn would be 18 (13 for the freighters + Valkha escapes)

In theory the Valkha could win by destroying a single F1 and exiting the map so long as it didn’t lose any weapons.
Each weapon lost would require the Valkha to destroy an additional F1 (or it’s equivalent).

If the Valkha loses all weapons and disengages it would need to have destroyed 2 F2 or 4 F1 to achieve victory.

If the Valkha is destroyed it would need to have destroyed both F2’s and 5 F1 to win.
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