Found my Original Starfire I...

Home of the 1st and 2nd editions of STARFIRE

Moderators: SDS Members, SDS Owner

Forum rules
Forum rules
1. Nothing obscene.
2. No advertising or spamming.
3. No personal information. Mostly aimed at the posting of OTHER people's information.
4. No flame wars. We encourage debate, but it becomes a flame when insults fly and tempers flare.

Try to stick with the forum's topic. Threads that belong to another forum will be moved to that forum.

Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby RedInTheMorning on Wed 13 Aug 2014 19:30

...and of course had to play it!

Total nostalgia, can't remember when I bought it but must've been around 1980-2. Game design has changed a lot since then.

One thing I didn't like - immediately - after all these years, was that ships max speed = engine units. nothing like real life with thrusters burning. A better mass/engine ratio should just give you more powerful acceleration and deceleration, right? Perhaps more maneuverability if side thrusters are built in.

I played scenario one a couple of different ways - original of course, and with a few mods like giving the Khanate ship Primary Beams.

For movement, I'm leaning towards the following:
- All ships still have a Maneuver Rating, but it would be 1 for sluggish ships, 2 for responsive ships, 3 for very agile ships [rare].
- Ships enter the map or start at a chosen speed.
- Ships may increase / decrease speed = to Maneuver Rating, i.e, if moving at speed 6 with MR2 you could thrust to 8 or 4 max.
- Ships may change direction by one hex side per MR per turn.
- HOWEVER, neither the number of hex sides of direction changed, nor speed adjustments total can exceed the MR. So if you've MR 2 you can increase speed one hex and change facing one hex side in a single turn.

This gives me more of the feel of space movement without complicating things much. The question is then what to do with all the engine units? I'm thinking that each engine unit over one will provide one MR, and I was also thinking that perhaps Shields and Beam Weapons should operate off an engine unit.

Just some thoughts. Don't want to change things too much, but it's fun to tinker with it.
RedInTheMorning
Midshipman 1st Class
Midshipman 1st Class
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed 13 Aug 2014 08:20

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby Vandervecken on Thu 14 Aug 2014 00:53

It is always fun to play with a set of rules. A lot of us do it.

RedInTheMorning wrote:nothing like real life with thrusters burning


That is what we use now but here is the big problem, and you kinda mentioned it in your next sentence. It's not the mass to engine ratio that kills your idea, it is fuel mass to engine use that squashes using current thrusters to move at speeds like those used in Starfire. All just about any size ship could carry using thrust propulsion as we currently know and use, is a small crew and maybe a small weapon package, a little life support and some small sensor suite. You gain very little as you increase mass (Ship size) as the amount of fuel to modify it's current vector increase as well The rest of the ship would have to be fuel to make those thrust maneuvers, and the more accelleration/deceleration + maneuvers you do, the faster you will run out of it. It took the mighty Saturn V to get a very small package to the moon and there wasn't much maneuvering that could be done, because the fuel was already spoken for just to get it there. Thrust technologies have advanced a bit since the 60's but the ones that last long enough to get some vessel get even close to Starfire speeds, do it sooooo slowly. Time is the trade-off and a 215 day battle using Ion thrust maneuvering isn't the picture I have in my mind when I imagine a cinematic space battle. Reality bites but ...

... whether you use the starfire rules or your own hybrid, you can always use some future -tech discovery to make it 'WORK' for your game - no matter how implausible it is in the real world. Enjoy the game !
Last edited by Vandervecken on Sun 17 Aug 2014 07:49, edited 1 time in total.
I weary of the chasssse. Wait for me. I will be mercccciful and quick.
User avatar
Vandervecken
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2012 20:21
Location: Minnesnowta

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby Albireo on Thu 14 Aug 2014 01:21

RedInTheMorning wrote:... and I was also thinking that perhaps Shields and Beam Weapons should operate off an engine unit.


Reminds me of energy management in Star Fleet Battles.
Albireo
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu 17 Oct 2013 00:32
Location: California

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby RedInTheMorning on Thu 14 Aug 2014 07:58

exactly, my assumption is that Fission technology not only makes ships have an amazing ratio of energy production to fuel carried, and that they run on water or something available in outer space naturally, therefore the ships "refuel" at various objects in space. A general idea I got from Atomic Rockets website and High Frontier [http://sierra-madre-games.eu/].

Also, the inert fuel [water?] means there isn't a combustive element carried aboard except for weapon warheads - if used.
RedInTheMorning
Midshipman 1st Class
Midshipman 1st Class
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed 13 Aug 2014 08:20

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby Cralis on Thu 14 Aug 2014 19:46

RedInTheMorning wrote:...and of course had to play it!

Total nostalgia, can't remember when I bought it but must've been around 1980-2. Game design has changed a lot since then.


There are a few more versions, yes :) But that in no way invalidates the version you like best.

One thing I didn't like - immediately - after all these years, was that ships max speed = engine units. nothing like real life with thrusters burning. A better mass/engine ratio should just give you more powerful acceleration and deceleration, right? Perhaps more maneuverability if side thrusters are built in.


In the later versions of STARFIRE, engine power is different depending upon the size of ship. Smaller ships are more efficient and larger ships are less efficient, so they not only move slower but require more engines to do so. As you advance in technology, engines also get better.

And in the latest versions, there are different kinds of drives with different strengths and weaknesses.

Just some thoughts. Don't want to change things too much, but it's fun to tinker with it.


And that's the beauty of the STARFIRE system, regardless of version. It's very easy to house rule and create custom scenarios and/or campaigns!
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 10198
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby Sekundar on Wed 20 Aug 2014 18:33

Even though one I unit will give both an Escort and a Superdreadnaught one movement point, it costs 5 Mcr and takes up 1/2 space on a ES, but 15 Mcr and 4 spaces on a SD. So they aren't actually the same engine.
There are also the various max speed and turn modes to differentiate the hull sizes. Even if they did get them bass-ackwards for the freighters.
F - is the Fire that rains from the skies
U - for Uranium bomb!
N - is for No survivors...
Sekundar
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2014 11:21

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby RedInTheMorning on Thu 21 Aug 2014 07:43

Did an assessment of the 1st and 2nd editions at my blog, will move on to the first two scenarios in the next posts:
RedInTheMorning.blogspot.com
Quite enjoying myself. My ideas for changes to make the game a bit more realistic based upon our present science arc will be forthcoming. Mainly, computer tech has moved much faster than expected in 1979, while energy weapons and thrust energy is progressing slower.

NOTE: for those interested, I'll probably sell off the 2nd Edition box. The one I have is complete and in good shape but I don't feel the same nostalgic pull as with the original.
RedInTheMorning
Midshipman 1st Class
Midshipman 1st Class
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed 13 Aug 2014 08:20

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby Sekundar on Thu 21 Aug 2014 10:04

If you want to change the game to make it more "realistic", that's what all the subsequent editions have been trying to do. Particularly Ultra and Solar.
F - is the Fire that rains from the skies
U - for Uranium bomb!
N - is for No survivors...
Sekundar
Lieutenant JG
Lieutenant JG
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2014 11:21

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby RedInTheMorning on Fri 22 Aug 2014 09:07

Second blog post: Scenario 1, naval sitrep and batrep is up. Should be of interest to any Original Starfire player, perhaps others, includes some pics and detailed analysis of two RAW plays.
http://redinthemorning.blogspot.com/
RedInTheMorning
Midshipman 1st Class
Midshipman 1st Class
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed 13 Aug 2014 08:20

Re: Found my Original Starfire I...

Postby RedInTheMorning on Sat 23 Aug 2014 20:30

banged out another poast - scenario 2, naval sitrep and batrep. Interesting scenario, looking forward to hitting #3, and expanding the game into miniatures.
RedInTheMorning
Midshipman 1st Class
Midshipman 1st Class
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed 13 Aug 2014 08:20

Next

Return to Original Starfire

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron