Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

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Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Hastati on Mon 14 Aug 2017 02:18

Hi,
New poster here, but a long time Starfire player. I'm a 2nd edition fan and was very happy to find the PDFs available on Wargames Vault so bought them to have as a long-term back up for my originals. Reading through them I have found a couple of typos in Starfare and New Empires. I'll list them here in the hope that the files can be updated.

Starfire 2nd Edition Main Rulebook (PDF version)
Page Issue
14 Outreach class (2) SSSAAAWIWIIII (6)
Delete “(6)” and replace with “(5)”
19 Scenario 3, victory conditions: “The Khanate player will win a decisive victory if, in addition tofu the victory conditions above”
Delete “tofu” and replace with “to”
22 (B12.39) Scenario IX. Aklumar: The Clash of Titans
Delete “IX” and replace with “VIII”
46 Fighter Kill Table: “Roll two six-sided dice.”
Delete “two six-sided dice” and replace with “one six sided die.”

Starfire 2nd Edition New Empires (PDF version)
Page Issue
48 Fighter Kill Table: “Roll two six-sided dice.”
Delete “two six-sided dice” and replace with “one six sided die.”

I really appreciate the effort that went into creating these PDFs, they are great to have. Also glad to see that some people still like to play the old versions of Starfire. I really only play using the tactical rules and don't do campaigns, so 2nd edition works a treat for me.
Regards,
David
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby coldsteel on Mon 14 Aug 2017 13:24

Hastati wrote:19 Scenario 3, victory conditions: “The Khanate player will win a decisive victory if, in addition tofu the victory conditions above”
Delete “tofu” and replace with “to”



What if they are vegetarian Orions.....?

Sorry, could not resist. Thanks for the heads-up though!
TFN: 2 BC, 4 CA, 2 CL, 8 DD
RPSA: 2 CV, 4 CA, 2 CL, 8 DD
civilian: 4 'FTx' (made FT out of 40K Imp Guard flamer tanks)
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Cralis on Mon 14 Aug 2017 14:04

Thank you for the list... when we re-released the older editions we did it "as is" with hardly any changes (mostly just updates to the copyright and company information). But maybe we should do minor typo fixes? If we do, it comes with the caveat that we have no intention of doing major changes or updates.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Mon 14 Aug 2017 16:30

The typo in the fighter kill table appears to have been introduced in the re-release. A scan of the 2nd edition Player's Information Card on boardgamegeek shows that the original publication had the correct wording. This is one of the reasons why it would be good to offer scans of the original publications in addition to the re-releases (the updated publisher's information could easily be added as additional pages at the beginning and end of the pdf).

Also does anyone with the original 1st or 2nd edition rulebooks know if it has the "other playing pieces" set-up information for "The Valkha Episode Part II"?. The first edition PDF omits this information (though the planet location is given as 2631 in the Special Rules) and the second edition PDF gives warp point locations identical to the prior scenario in the campaign (which was a different star system) and gives a different location for the planet in the set-up (3509) than is listed in the Special Rules (which again references 2631). It would be a shame for this not to be fixed since this is one of the more interesting introductory scenarios.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Hastati on Tue 15 Aug 2017 12:28

I'm looking at my original 2nd edition hard copy and the locations given for the planet and warp points are as you note. However, in the special rules it gives the planet location as 2631, which contradicts the set up information in the other playing pieces section. There are other errors in the box set rules, but there wasn't a comprehensive errata produced for it. There are a few bits and pieces in Nexus, but I can't access my copies unfortunately (they are in California and I am in Belgium).

Other than the speed of the Outreach, none of the other typos are in the original books.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Tue 15 Aug 2017 18:05

Both Nexus 9 and 11 contain some errata. Nexus 9 clarifies b7.3 (missles fire between tractored and tractoring units) and b10.0 (how many ships can transit a warp point at one time). It also has corrections to many ship classes. Nexus 11 points out several more ship class errors.

Well, here's hoping that someone with an original 1st edition hardcopy can shed some light on the Valkha scenario issue. It's possible the information always was missing from the scenario but I could swear I actually played this scenario back in the 80's. An added complication is the fact that the hex locations cited in most of the scenarios were adjusted between 1st and 2nd edition to accommodate the switch from a 4 panel to a 6 panel map.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby procyon on Wed 16 Aug 2017 01:29

The original Valkha scenario in the 'baggy' Starfire was 'incomplete' in the setup. We always kind of 'wing it' when playing it with the kids.
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Wed 16 Aug 2017 22:37

So the omission was there from the beginning. Well, it's difficult to deduce much about the missing information. I think the 2631 planet location is accurate only for 1st edition since that hex number does not exist on the 2nd edition map (the 6 panel map was 50% wider than the 4 panel map, but was slightly shorter). I wonder if the 2nd edition editors might have intentionally adopted the same warp point hex numbers for both scenarios as this would make it easy to play the scenarios concurrently on the same map (you would just need to keep track of which ships were on which side of the warp point - perhaps changing the color of the counters when ships transit from one system to the other).

Even if the 2nd edition set-up information is correct the scenario (in both editions) neglects to tell us where to place the convoy or which warp point the Valkha arrives from in Part II. I'm guessing that it arrives by Warp Point 2 (which again, would make it easier to play both scenarios simultaneously). The special rules forbid the freighters from using the warp points to leave the map so either the cargo is critical and must be delivered do or die (in which case the convoy might start from the warp point 1), or the freighters had a starting location which made escape through the warp points impractical (which seems unlikely).
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby Cralis on Thu 17 Aug 2017 11:20

Ok I've been waiting and watching. Fixing the Valkha scenario is about the upper limit of what we will do to revise the older versions. So help me out -- how do you recommend we fix it? With details.
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Re: Some typos in PDF versions of 2nd Edition

Postby VX-134 on Thu 17 Aug 2017 19:46

I might have some ideas but would need some time to study the 2 scenarios in more detail.

Some quick observations (mostly on the 1st scenario):

There are minor differences in the control sheets between 1st and 2nd edition:
One D was deleted from the CL REHFRAK (to bring the number of hull space DOWN to the legal max)
H replaced one A on the Khanate frigates
One A was added to the Terran Destroyers (to bring the number of hull spaces UP to the legal max)
The H on the Terran Destoyers was switched from being the the 3rd system inside the armor to the 1st
H replaced one A on the Outreach Class frigate escorting the convoy in Part II and another I was moved forward of the 2nd W (this is the corrected control sheet from Nexus 9, one engine was omitted from the design in the rulebook).
Overal these changes are either neutral or favor the Terrans.

By my count the balance of forces is as follows for Part I, (2nd edition):
Terrans: 6 F, 11 W, 97 hits to kill, all ships have 1 D, Only the CA has a T & C
Khanate: 6 F, 7 W, 1 L, 2 P, 112 hits to kill, Only the CL/BC have D,T & C

There’s a rough parity in offensive weapons but the Terran advantage in point defense will give them a substantial advantage outside gun range. The Khanate have more tonnage overrall but start with less since the BC cannot enter the map until turn 3. All Terran warships are speed 6 but the Khanate frigates are speed 4. If this were a straight up fleet battle I’m thinking it would favor the Terrans but since the Khanate’s only objective is to get the Valkha through WP2 with 10 systems intact I’m less certain of that.
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