Drone launch or unloading

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Drone launch or unloading

Postby bgdaves on Sat 08 Jun 2013 16:42

I do not know what version of the Ultra rules I have other then the zip file names are ultra 4 2006
I still have a couple of questions on drones and have not been able to find an answer on the forums might be my poor search skill but below are my questions in bold. Thanks in advance.


Q1. Rule D9.06.1 Drone Activation
... Active drones may also be launched under their own power from Shuttle Bays and Launch Bays.
The rules for Launch Bays are state a rate of launch as one per generation of the BL system, but I cannot find anywhere that gives a launch rate for the Shuttle Bay systems? (Bsa), (Bsb), (Bse), (Bsi)

Q2. Table E4.01 Cargo Transfer Rates
Lists Space to/from Large Unit as 1 csp per H or 2 Bb pts

Thanks again for the help, some of the confusion could be my version of the rules.
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Re: Drone launch or unloading

Postby procyon on Mon 08 Jul 2013 06:31

For the question on drones from a Bs, you are correct. If you have loaded a bunch of drones into your Bs, you can launch then.

On the load/unload rates, you are a little confused.
You can't unload 2bbp in a turn. You can unload 1 csp for each 2 bbp of a bay.
So an H or Bsa can unload 1 csp. A Bsb can unload 2 csp.
So with a bbp equal to 250 csp, it will take 250 turns to umload a drone1. Same with a Bsa if you want to get a drone out without launching it.

Of course, you can transfer the drone from an H to the Bs or back at 5 csp per internal transfer.
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Re: Drone launch or unloading

Postby procyon on Mon 08 Jul 2013 06:34

Sorry for the terribly late reply.
My internet access is rather limited so snooping around doesn't happen often.
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Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Drone launch or unloading

Postby Cralis on Mon 08 Jul 2013 19:56

It looks like I "edited" and not replied, and he replied by using bold. I've separated out my original posts and continued this. My apologies, I did not realize I did this. Sometimes being admin gets me in trouble =\

Thank you Procyon for noticing :)

bgdaves wrote:I do not know what version of the Ultra rules I have other then the zip file names are ultra 4 2006

I still have a couple of questions on drones and have not been able to find an answer on the forums might be my poor search skill but below are my questions in bold. Thanks in advance.

Q1. Rule D9.06.1 Drone Activation
... Active drones may also be launched under their own power from Shuttle Bays and Launch Bays.
The rules for Launch Bays are state a rate of launch as one per generation of the BL system, but I cannot find anywhere that gives a launch rate for the Shuttle Bay systems? (Bsa), (Bsb), (Bse), (Bsi)


G2.04
... A Shuttle Bay (Bs) may land or launch any number of squadrons in a turn (it cannot do both).

So a (Bsi) could launch 8 Drone2 in one turn?


By the rules, you can launch as many as you can fit into the (Bsx). Since (Bsi) has a capacity of 8 bbp (and Drone2 a 1 bbp size), then yes.

Q2. Table E4.01 Cargo Transfer Rates
Lists Space to/from Large Unit as 1 csp per H or 2 Bb pts


No, it means that it can load or unload two Boat Bay Points. Generally this is only needed if you have to unload small craft that are unable to launch on their own. For example, if you land a squadron on a BL that is too low generation, the squadron cannot launch and must be "unloaded" from the ship using cargo transfer rules. Another example, the same rule would be used if using the cargo transfer rules to move shuttles from one launch bay to another without launching it from the ship (but in this cause you'd unload it "from" the large unit, and then reload it "to" the large unit).

So a H on a ship could unload two drone2 in one turn? Or is the 2 Bb pts limited somehow to the smallcraft example above.


In this case, I believe Procyon is not correct. The csp rate is for loading/unloading from cargo holds and the Bb rate is for loading/unloading smcft and AP from (Bs) and (BL). There is another piece of rule, maybe in AA.Smcft that talks about loading/unloading bays and it refers to this rule. I think.

I believe Procyon is correct, although in later versions of the rules (I'm looking at v6.02) the transfer rate has been changed to "1 per minute/per Hb". Since a Drone2 is 1 bbp, we look at [Table E4A] to find that 1 bbp is equal to 250 csp, a ship with 1 Hb or no Hb would require 250 minutes to unload each drone2.

Remember, in SSF a smcft that is 1 bbp in size is roughly the size of a U.S. Navy destroyer. And honestly, in v6.01 we slowed the rate down quite a bit. It was at the point you could unload a freighter full of USN destroyers in a few hours.
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Re: Drone launch or unloading

Postby procyon on Mon 08 Jul 2013 23:10

In Ultra there are no Hb, but I think you get the idea.
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Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Drone launch or unloading

Postby Cralis on Tue 09 Jul 2013 02:10

procyon wrote:In Ultra there are no Hb, but I think you get the idea.


Oh my bad. I'm so used to people posting in the SSF forum I didn't even check this one... I just went to the next unread one in the recent list. :oops:

I've gone back and edited my post to be ultra specific and I've crossed-out the SSF stuff. My apologies.
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Re: Drone launch or unloading

Postby procyon on Tue 09 Jul 2013 07:06

I tend to disagree with the 2 bbp per turn.
We read it as 1 per (H or 2 bbp) - not as - (1 per H) or (2 bbp). As this doesn't state from a Bs my players would read it as meaning 2 bbp from any system to include the H.

It also seems to contradict E4.03.1 that states that without tractors AP are laid manually at the standard rate of a single csp. If you can dump 250 csp a turn manually out the bay - this rule seems pointless. Why keep tractors to loas/unload AP if they slow you down by a factor of 25?

Pushing a drone the size of a coast guard cutter out by hand in 30 seconds just seems to fail my giggle test.
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Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Drone launch or unloading

Postby Cralis on Tue 09 Jul 2013 20:25

procyon wrote:I tend to disagree with the 2 bbp per turn.
We read it as 1 per (H or 2 bbp) - not as - (1 per H) or (2 bbp). As this doesn't state from a Bs my players would read it as meaning 2 bbp from any system to include the H.


That's the part I was saying about vaguely written... but what else uses bbp as a capacity? Only Bs. It is clearly a capacity, not a condition. I don't see any parenthesis so you have to take it in order of operations... and there is only one: Or

And I agree with you on the "it doesn't state", however, H doesn't have a bbp capacity so you can't move cargo in and out of it in a bbp capacity. Therefore, by the golden rule of STARFIRE, it cannot be done.

It also seems to contradict E4.03.1 that states that without tractors AP are laid manually at the standard rate of a single csp. If you can dump 250 csp a turn manually out the bay - this rule seems pointless. Why keep tractors to loas/unload AP if they slow you down by a factor of 25?


"Laying an AP" is more than simply dropping it out of a hole in the hull. This is simply moving an object out of a bay and back into another one (or not, I guess). There is NO activation of AP or smcft in this process. Besides, in the case of drones you'd simply launch them from bays or BL, not use the cargo handling rules to lay them "manually."

Pushing a drone the size of a coast guard cutter out by hand in 30 seconds just seems to fail my giggle test.


Actually, the ULTRA drones are about the size of the U.S.S. Arleigh Burke. But I digress.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that a single, large object could be ejected from a bay or reloaded. What makes cargo difficult to move is the fact that it comes in small containers, or large flexible containers that require special handling. An AP or smcft is going to be a hardened object that can withstand a little abuse.

Either way, that's how the rule is written.
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