Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby procyon on Sun 01 Aug 2010 14:19

Boy, I'm going to turn into the late hit wonder. I should never be allowed onto this site with free time on my hands..... :D

On the SRW damaging smcft beyond their normal range, we let them in our group (drakar's). Without the range it makes the smcft too powerful in our games.
As a sqn is usually only 6+ HS for the 20-30+ DP, a point or two at a range of 9 on a weapon that can't hurt a ship at that range isn't unrealistic.
As for the Ga shooting past its range... oh well. Most folks shooting Ga at smcft aren't long for the game board anyway.

Back to the WP transits, that has been a problem for our group. Letting the little buggers through enmass is devastating if they chose to kamakazi.
The problem is that the players all have 16-19HS CT/CTb that with TSA can get TWO of them through a size A WP in a pulse. Seems strange that two CT can make it through without any chance of interpenetration when a 7HS group of GBb can't. If you can get 32 HS of CT through, why not 7 or even 14 HS of GBb?
Especially when the rules say GB use commercial type engines, which are better for WP transit in the first place.

The fact those 7HS GB's ram like a DD is a whole different issue.
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby wievil on Tue 08 Feb 2011 22:43

Cralis wrote:
drakar wrote:Ok I don't play with fighters and gunboats very often but here is a question that we have had in my group that pertains to this section I believe. In previous editions small craft were unable to equip precision weapons until SL12 does this still hold true as I have seen nothing in Ultra's rules and we scrounged everywhere to look for it?


STRAIGHT FROM MARVIN: It seems that GSF had small craft precision weapons, and he intended to re-balance them for ULTRA. He didn't get it complete, and as of right now there are no rules for using precision weapons on small craft in ULTRA.

So the answer is: NO PRECISION WEAPONS ON SMALL CRAFT.

We will re-visit this topic soon.


[grumble] Ok, I've paid my yearly subscription fee, have been doing so since Ultra came out. Can I get an updated copy of Ultra with the impact of this ruling included? [/grumble]

It's now what, February 2011. Is it soon enough to revisit this?

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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Cralis on Wed 09 Feb 2011 00:46

We've already been talking about them, and I've spoken to Marvin at length several times.

The ULTRA-4-2009 ruleset (and even before, actually) does have rules for Fp, Ep, and Lp. Marvin thought they were incomplete and made the ruling that "officially" they weren't supposed to be in the rules. But we've since (actually last week) pinned down all the related rules and decided that they are complete.

On the balance and usability of those weapons, these are the conclusions we have so far:

1. They are mounted, equipped, and used just like any other f-SRW

2. They have modifiers of -2 (Lp/Ep) and -3 (Fp) that make the rolls -2 to 8 or -3 to 7, meaning they do 0-4 or 0-3 damage (FRD). Lp and Ep do deep hits, and Fp does normal Fp damage. Note that fighters can never do better precision damage (they don't have the sensors or tractor beams to facilitate more precise hits).

3. One thing NOT in the rules that we will probably add in the next version is that every point of fighter damage with precision SRW is treated as a separate salvo (the damage doesn't stack like normal precision weapons, and thus cannot go "further into" the target's internals like normal multi-point precision hits).

4. These weapons have an unknown balance. they do not appear to be absurdly unbalanced, but we may need to give bigger modifiers and/or give them range limitations. We don't know yet. This is what will take some time to accomplish properly.

If you want to test them under these conditions, we'd love to hear your input. We haven't gotten to them yet. While I sympathize with your position, we have a LOT of stuff moving around right now and we have to prioritize. Since we are prioritizing the work on the rules, it is a fair bet we'll get to rules-related stuff pretty soon.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Starfire on Wed 09 Feb 2011 13:25

wievil wrote:[grumble] Ok, I've paid my yearly subscription fee, have been doing so since Ultra came out. Can I get an updated copy of Ultra with the impact of this ruling included? [/grumble]

It's now what, February 2011. Is it soon enough to revisit this?

Wievil


I just wanted to comment on this. Since about 2005, Ultra has had too many links for both Framemaker and for Adobe Acrobat to handle (shows up as false reference errors and link errors). There are however some work arounds, such as splitting rules into many files. Around the summer of 2009, as these programs fell out of long term support, I have been having problems with making new PDFs (part of the reason that re-subscription notices don't go out yearly, just when people ask for updated rules and are not subscription current are they told we need the $5.00) As part of this most recent and significant revision, we are moving the rules to a different program that is still being supported (and should be for many years). The move to a new program has been a major undertaking for a volunteer organization. I still have not learned how to use the program to an acceptable degree. But long term, this should be a very good thing for all Starfire products and we should gain a lot more flexibility as more and more are converted.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby wievil on Wed 09 Feb 2011 21:24

Starfire wrote:
wievil wrote:[grumble] Ok, I've paid my yearly subscription fee, have been doing so since Ultra came out. Can I get an updated copy of Ultra with the impact of this ruling included? [/grumble]

It's now what, February 2011. Is it soon enough to revisit this?

Wievil


I just wanted to comment on this...


Marvin,

What I'd like to see and what the "Is it soon enough to revisit this" comment was about was the ruling earlier in this forum that since precision weapons are not balanced on smallcraft there will be no precision weapons on smallcraft in Ultra. QED

Ok, have not played with precision weapons in general except as "automated platforms explosive weapons Fpa" (apewFpa) on Drone2, so maybe precision weapons on smallcraft need to be looked at.... but it's been five years since Ultra came out. Isn't it time to get that rule section right? As written (Fp, Lp, Ep) looked ok to my unenlightened eye though I've not tested it.

Having said all of that, I don't recall (Fp, Lp, Ep) being internal SRW on any smallcrarft in any previous Starfire version. So maybe if they were listed as to Fighter/Gunboat generation at which they became available as a substitute to LRW like rG substitutes then maybe the rule would be closer to the intent, which I thought was to add a different flavor to smallcraft weapons.

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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Cralis on Wed 09 Feb 2011 23:29

Wievel, did you read my post above here? I gave you most of the information you needed.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby PracticalM on Thu 10 Feb 2011 02:42

Primary packs were in ISW4 but I don't think I ever saw fighter Needle beams.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby wievil on Thu 10 Feb 2011 13:47

Cralis wrote:Wievel, did you read my post above here? I gave you most of the information you needed.


Nope, sorry. Missed your post. Reading it now.

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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby wievil on Thu 10 Feb 2011 13:52

Cralis wrote:We've already been talking about them, and I've spoken to Marvin at length several times....

<snip>




Kewl, and thanks for the update.

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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Cralis on Thu 10 Feb 2011 14:39

wievil wrote:Kewl, and thanks for the update.

Wievil


Its no problem, just trying to stay ahead of the projects AND try and keep information flowing out to you guys :)
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