The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby aethelred on Wed 14 Aug 2013 20:09

Meanwhile, at the muddy bottom of a very murky pool of water, a gas bubble forms from deeper under the mud. The bubble struggles to free itself for days, then finally enough gasses gather into the bubble to break free of the bottom and start it's assent. The gas pocket forces itself past rotten leave, twigs and other forms of debris until finally making it to the surface. Once on the surface, there is an insignificant sounding 'pop' near the foundation wall of a fourth generation building. :shock:
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby Vandervecken on Thu 15 Aug 2013 01:14

Aethelred, If you already have 2 x CL by turn #10 you may (or may not) have another rules issue it you started with the standard game set-up.

Per K2.04.2 - " ... and the following hulls already prototyped: DD, FGf, BS2, and FT4"

As you may have noticed, this list didn't include CL. You have the tech to build CLs, but still must prototype it which costs extra money (Hull Cost is x2) and pay for it's 'New Class' fee as well (and extra 20% of the ship's normal cost).

Example: Lets say you have a 45 HS CL that normally costs 694 MCr. The Prototype CL with its 'New Class' Fee would be: (694.2 MCr for Base Cost + 236.25 for 2nd HS Cost of prototype + 138.84 for 20% 'New Class' fee = 1069.29 which rounds up to 1069.3 MCr) And as an extra bonus, Prototypes have double their HS in time to build. This means that the 45 HS CL takes 90 HS of time at a shipyard to build. Since you have the standard 10+(EL x2) = 14 HS per turn build rate, it will take 7 turns to complete your first CL.

What about the second CL, you ask?

M1.03.4 has this rule - Until this prototype unit is completed, other units of this hull type and size are built at the prototype rates [M4] and costs including any first in class requirement [M1.03.5]. So it to will probably cost 1069.3 MCr and take 7 turns to complete.

Like I said in the opening paragraph, it is possible to have 2 x CL in a fleet on turn #10 using the Standard set-up. But it is bloody expensive and will take some vital funds most use for colonization, Government owned Freighters, or even IU building. (the economic build areas that make buying expensive Prototypes a little easier to bear come turn 5, or 8 or even 10 or 12.

Also remember that you need to build a prototype hull for your CL (If not the whole ship) before you can buy the CA prototype once you hit EL 3. That doesn't seem to be an issue for the Kobolds, at least.

If none of this is news to you, that is cool, the Kobolds are very war-like and I can see them spending tons of MCR around for their play-toys instead of being patient and waiting for the 1st Prototype to be done before buying a second 'Shiny' toy.
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby SCC on Thu 15 Aug 2013 01:22

The solution is simple Vandervecken, the Kobolds have an extra unlisted Advanced Science trait for Construction (Con) this means that they don't need to prototype anything below CA
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby Vandervecken on Thu 15 Aug 2013 01:45

It is a Solo campaign, so that will work, SCC. It is still a learning game and a fun one at that. And that is assuming he bent the rules a bit, which he might not have.

Getting to know the rules during this campaign will hopefully give Aethelred the confidence to join a group campaign sometime in the future. Or possibly GM a campaign with his friends, relatives, or even some of us. Any victim (er ... Player) will do.
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby Elminster on Thu 15 Aug 2013 02:08

Vandervecken wrote:Also remember that you need to build a prototype hull for your CL (If not the whole ship) before you can buy the CA prototype once you hit EL 3.

That's not necessary.
Con.03 second paragraph: "Finishing a hull prototype will automatically prototype all equal or smaller size hulls of the same type, improvement, and generation [...] that are legal."

Prototyping a regular military hull will also give you the freighter hull of the same size and smaller.
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby Cralis on Thu 15 Aug 2013 02:13

Elminster wrote:
Vandervecken wrote:Also remember that you need to build a prototype hull for your CL (If not the whole ship) before you can buy the CA prototype once you hit EL 3.

That's not necessary.
Con.03 second paragraph: "Finishing a hull prototype will automatically prototype all equal or smaller size hulls of the same type, improvement, and generation [...] that are legal."

Prototyping a regular military hull will also give you the freighter hull of the same size and smaller.


Unless they are building Early Prototypes (M1.03.4.1), then they'll have to do them in sequential order. But that's probably not the case here :)
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby aethelred on Thu 15 Aug 2013 03:43

Okay, the CL's were actually built as part of the starting fleet. So I guess I missed some of the costs. In this case these were 45 HS cl's, the lower cost ship was 604. So, 236+120=356 extra to prototype the first CL?
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby Vandervecken on Thu 15 Aug 2013 04:27

aethelred wrote:Okay, the CL's were actually built as part of the starting fleet. So I guess I missed some of the costs. In this case these were 45 HS cl's, the lower cost ship was 604. So, 236+120=356 extra to prototype the first CL?


besides the fact that Costs are rounded up (to the tenths in Solar), you got the basic math correct for a Prototyped and "New Class' Fee'd CL that Costs 604 MCR. Just 1 more thing you can add to your "I've got that covered" list.

Elminster wrote:That's not necessary.
Con.03 second paragraph: "Finishing a hull prototype will automatically prototype all equal or smaller size hulls of the same type, improvement, and generation [...] that are legal."


Thanks for reminding me, Elminster. I haven't had a chance to do Early Prototypes yet in my 'Three Empire' campaign, but the rule about needing to do things sequentially for that side-case was there in my mind. I need to get most of the side-cases properly stacked in my head (Not over-ruling a main rule until the side-case is in effect), so that I can run a smart campaign for the relatives this Fall.
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby SCC on Thu 15 Aug 2013 04:49

Vandervecken wrote:Thanks for reminding me, Elminster. I haven't had a chance to do Early Prototypes yet in my 'Three Empire' campaign, but the rule about needing to do things sequentially for that side-case was there in my mind. I need to get most of the side-cases properly stacked in my head (Not over-ruling a main rule until the side-case is in effect), so that I can run a smart campaign for the relatives this Fall.


If possible I'd advise holding off building a CA sized hull until EL 4 despite the fact that they're available at EL3. The reason, at EL 4 your going to build a CAbf anyway
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Re: The Glorious Kobold Empire rises again!

Postby Elminster on Thu 15 Aug 2013 05:04

SCC wrote:
Vandervecken wrote:Thanks for reminding me, Elminster. I haven't had a chance to do Early Prototypes yet in my 'Three Empire' campaign, but the rule about needing to do things sequentially for that side-case was there in my mind. I need to get most of the side-cases properly stacked in my head (Not over-ruling a main rule until the side-case is in effect), so that I can run a smart campaign for the relatives this Fall.


If possible I'd advise holding off building a CA sized hull until EL 4 despite the fact that they're available at EL3. The reason, at EL 4 your going to build a CAbf anyway

That's an interesting idea. If you aren't in need of bigger warships to survive a war, that is. Also a long way to go until EL 4.

Side note, the correct notation of the hull is "CAfb". I'm pretty sure there was a definition for this, but I can't find it now.

Cralis, if you can find this, how about moving it to A3.01 Type Codes?
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