Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

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Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby procyon on Tue 21 Jun 2011 01:13

I have recieved a request for the original layout of the solar system for our Nemesis Campaign.
I had originally intended to just send it back to the person requesting this, but decided that it may be of interest to anyone reading the story.

I have tried to keep it so that if follows the normal Starfire mechanics as much as possible. There were a fair number of deviations from both rules and real values to try and simplify things, and they will be listed with the body affected or following the list (to the best of my abilities). The radian designation is not exactly acurrate for the planets beyond Jupiter as we placed them in the system hex dictated by their actual plotted position for January 1st 2204. The radian should be close enough from most needs though. In the case of the dwarf planets beyond Neptune, the actual plotted locations are my best estimate as data on some is very limited. In respect to the AB colonies, graviational perturbations made acurrate plotting somewhat difficult over the course of centuries. I had positions plotted, but you will forgive me if I don't type out all of them. If you just scattered them about randomly, you probably have as good a chance to get them close to where they will actually be in 2204 as I do spending hours plotting them.

If you have questions, feel free to ask.

Sol System - Nemesis Campaign

Initial Layout

Sol Primary - radius = 10tH



Mercury at 3.2LM / radian 3 / PE
O3 / Extreme / Very Rich
changes radian by two per game week
changes facing of planet toward Sol by one per game week



Venus at 6.0LM / radian 5 / C
V / Death
changes radian by 1.5 per month



Earth at 8.3LM / radian 9
T / (HI 5) Benign / Rich
changes radian by one per month
changes facing by one per 4 hours

Luna at (5+1)tH - Tide Locked / PE
O2m / Desolate / Rich
changes placement by 1tH per day*



Mars at 12.7LM / radian 3 /US
O2 / Desolate / Rich
changes radian every other month
changes facing by one per 4 hours

Phobos in same tH as Mars
AB colony equivalent / Desolate / Rich
or as 1000HS Asteroid Fort

Deimos in same tH as Mars
AB colony equivalent / Desolate / Rich
or as 500HS Asteroid Fort


Asteroid Belt at 22LM
considered to fill entire ring at 3 system hexes from Sol

Ceres (22.4LM) / China
O2m / Desolate / Very Rich
changes location by 1 sH every 3 months
changes facing by one every 1.5 hours

Other surveyed outpost sites in AB:
(you could easily use the list of largest asteroids in Wiki, these are just the ones I chose)

Pallas / PE
Juno / US
Vestia / PE
Astrae / US
Hebe / PE
Iris / PE
Flora / US
Metis / US - to FSC
Hygiea / PE
Hyperion / PE
Hektor / PE - to FSC
Victoria / PE
Interamnia / US
Europa / PE - to FSC
Davida / US
Sylvia / US
Cybele / PE
Eunomia / US
Chiron / US


Ownership of all objects within 4AU were proscribed by the Treaty of L2 and reinstated by the Treaty of Mare Serenetatis of 2204. FSC holdings in the AB were created by amendment to Treaty of Mare Serenetatis by the US and PE. China refused to recognize the amendment.

Ownership of all objects beyond 4AU were proscribed by the Treaty of Mare Serenetatis of 2204. Trans Neptune objects were declared to be owned by the first government that could emplace a population of 50,000 colonist for 30 days. This was later applied to all objects beyond the solar system.

For the players (and my) convenience, the outer planets and moons were considered to move by normal Starfire orbital mechanics, with exceptions as noted.



Jupiter at 43.2LM / radian 3 / PE
Gas / Death
considered to completely fill 1tH, and extend into second

Amalthea at 3tH
AB colony equivalent / Extreme / Rich

Io at 6tH - Tide Locked
O2m / Extreme / Normal

Europa at 9tH - Tide Locked
O2m / Desolate / Very Rich

Ganymede at 15tH - Tide Locked
O2 / Desolate / Rich

Callisto at 26tH - Tide Locked
mT / Hostile / Normal

Himalia at 164tH (0.8LM)
AB colony equivalent / Desolate / Rich



Trojan Belt
Considered to be AB, 2 radians preceding and following Jupiter's position. No income bonus.
Each section considered 1 system hex wide, 3 system hexes long.
Sensors at 75% normal range. Long range detection possible. Only one ship may hide per hex.
Each section considered to have 2 colony sites, to be named by players following survey.
(Pick your own or use our. For Nemesis, the names chosen were
Helen / PE
Casandra / PE
Agememnon / US
Achilles / US



Saturn at 79.7LM / radian 1 / C
Gas / Death
considered to completely fill 1tH, and extend into second
rings considered to extend from 1tH to 2tH but are easily navigated around
may hide any size ship within 2tH of Saturn if immobile - as AB.

Tethis at 4tH
AB colony equivalent / Extreme / Rich

Dione at 6tH
AB colony equivalent / Desolate / Very Rich

Rhea at 7tH
O2m / Desolate / Very Rich

Titan at 17tH - Tide Locked
mT / Desolate / Very Rich

Iapetus at 98tH
AB colony equivalent / Desolate / Rich



Uranus at 160LM / radian 4
Ice / Death
considered to completely fill 1tH

Miranda at 2tH
AB colony equivalent / Extreme / Very Rich

Arial at 3tH
O1m / Extreme / Rich

Umbriel at 4tH
O1m / Extreme / Very Rich

Titania at 6tH
O1m / Extreme / Very Rich

Oberon at 8tH
O1m / Extreme / Very Rich



Neptune at 260LM / radian 3
Ice / Death
considered to completely fill 1tH

Proteus at 2tH
AB colony equivalent / Extreme / Rich

Triton at 5tH - Tide Locked
O1m / Extreme / Very Rich
oribit in retrograde at 1tH per day

Nereid at 78tH
AB colony equivalent / Extreme / Rich



Orcus at 328LM / radian 4**
O1m / Extreme / Rich



Pluto at 331LM / radian 1 / Tide Lock to Charon**
O1m / Extreme / Rich

Charon in same tH / Tide lock to Pluto
O1m / Extreme / Rich



Sedna at 536LM / radian 6**
O1m / Extreme / Rich



Eris at 541LM / radian 4**
O1m / Extreme / Very Rich

Dysnomia at 2 tH
AB colony equivalent / Extreme / Rich


*Ok, the cycle for Luna is to try and keep it close to the actual lunar cycle.
Move it along the 5 tH orbit at one hex per day. This makes it 30 days rather than 28, but is close enough for the kids. When placing it for combat, determine its location for the month by the 5tH orbit, and then move it one hex more distant.

** These pups have very unusual orbital characteristics. I have fairly involved tables laid out for their positions over the course of decades. Each has one page, front and back, of note paper outlining positions by the month. I am not copying that mess over. Sorry. You can have them follow normal orbits (none really come close to that), or sit down and figure it out if you wish. Pluto is pretty easy. Sedna and Orcus I considered close. Eris was my best guess - it might be on the other side of the sun for what little data I had to work with I also had data for Haumea, Makemake, and six other scattered disc objects as O1m or AB colony equivalents, but these listed were the major sites for the game. I was willing to add more scattered disc objects if the game ever got that far, but by then they were jumping to other systems and not interested.

I may have omitted some standard information. Typos are also quite possible. My wife proofreads the story, but not this stuff. If you find errors, I apologise.

You can easily quibble over what body qualifies for what designation, orbital characteristics, etc. O1m vs AB, Extreme vs Desolate vs Hostile, etc, etc, ad nauseum....
If you disagree, you are allowed. If you want to use this as a basis for your own games, feel free with my blessings. Change whatever you disagree with to make yourself and your group happy. Our game has been going for years and 100 turns. Don't plan on me changing it.
I could have made it much more complicated. Feel free to do this if you wish. Some of the work has been started for you. I needed to keep it so that a 12y/o boy could take a fair shot at knowing where the planets, moons, ABs, etc were going to be when figuring out ship movement orders and travel times. I kept the outer body movement patterns unknown until they surveyed them - then I photocopied the sheet and gave them one. And no, I don't have access to a scanner at home or at work so don't ask. Some of the moons as AB equivalents were just as suprises for the players. Until the players surveyed, they had no idea how many I had designated as in orbit of each planet and what they were. They knew about the 02m and 01m around the planets, the rest was a mystery.

Hope this satisfies the curious. Thanks again for reading.
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby procyon on Tue 21 Jun 2011 01:21

Concerning Saturn's moon Titan.
I have addressed this in the fiction, but don't think I have copied those sections over to this site yet.

Titan is considered an mT type moon in our game.
It max population is figured as if it was a Hostile moon, but emplacement costs are for a Desolate location.
It was meant as a surprise for the players, as the original handout listed Titan as desolate so they assumed it was an O2m. With Callisto listed as Hostile the players knew it was an mT. But with Titan as VR compared to Callisto's Normal, it was the hidden jewel....

Hope that answers questions before they are asked.
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby Cralis on Tue 21 Jun 2011 19:02

I can understand perhaps labeling Europa, Ganymede, or Callisto as mT.

But I don't understand how you have hostile max, desolate emplacement, and still call Titan an mT... was that an attempt to limit it?
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby procyon on Tue 21 Jun 2011 23:16

We labeled it an mT to make it easier for the kids to remember what the pop limit was.
It would actually be more of a 'special' if you wanted to be technical. This system has a lot of those though.

I gave Titan that max due to the atmospheric pressure making it easier for colonization.
I gave it a higher emplacement cost to reflect the difficulty of creating habitats that would seal out the potentially explosive atmosphere (at least it would be explosive when it got into a habitat) and a surface temp closer to O1m temps to me than O2m.

But the biggest reason was to fake the players out. :evil: They knew at the game start up that it was desolate. Not that it had a high max population. They all assumed it was just another O2m.

Callisto was the only other mT due to its distance from Jupiter.
It is the only major moon outside of Jupiter's radiation belts. Tidal forces from Jupiter and the other moons are least at Callisto - creating a much more stable enviroment.

The idea that the closest moon to a gas giant would be the mT is hard for me to swallow as a physicist.
:geek:
It will be bathed in the most intense radiation and be subject to horrible tidal effects.
An mT should actually be the farthest out.
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby Cralis on Wed 22 Jun 2011 00:38

In my various studies for the more advanced STARFIRE games I was playing, the most important details for determining colonization seemed to be:

* Availability of Water (not Oxygen, because that comes from the available of liquid water)
* Atmospheric Composition (Thickness, or Air Pressure, wasn't nearly as important as the others, except when very thin or non-existent)
* Temperature
* Organic Materials
* Ionizing radiation must not exceed a certain value.

Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto have the very first one - the most important one. Water. The rest can be compensated for with technology, but even EL50 cannot generate water (and for us, oxygen for air and hydrogen for fuel) from nothing. Technically NO moon of Jupiter exists outside of its magnetic field since the field stretches all the way to the orbit of Saturn. The "torus" is centered on Io and doesn't really affect the other moons that much.

And vacuum is no big deal. We can build starships. Why not airtight domes or buildings?

Titan is much colder and has very little or no water. The atmospheric thickness pales when compared to this fact. The air would matter to a race that can breathe it, but not to humans.

Anyway, game-wise it makes for an interesting turn of events. Realistically though it is just a bigger mF moon ;)
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby procyon on Wed 22 Jun 2011 01:15

Cralis wrote:In my various studies for the more advanced STARFIRE games I was playing, the most important details for determining colonization seemed to be:

* Availability of Water (not Oxygen, because that comes from the available of liquid water)


Ummm, check the composition of 'rock' on Titan. It's water at the surface. Add in Saturn's rings and you have an immense store of water.

Cralis wrote:* Atmospheric Composition (Thickness, or Air Pressure, wasn't nearly as important as the others, except when very thin or non-existent)


Its not ideal, but is not toxic. And as an engineer, given a choice between building in vacuum or in 1.4 atm, I will chose the later each time. Atmosphere and known materials at Titan would allow synthesis of a decent atmoshpere fairly easily for a habitat.

Cralis wrote:* Organic Materials


Ok, here Titan blows away just about every other body in the solar system. (At least one we could walk on.) Massive amounts of chemicals for using in construction, polymer formation, even agriculture.

Cralis wrote:* Ionizing radiation must not exceed a certain value.


Here is where the three inner Galilean moons of Jupiter fail the test. Callisto is a major cancer hazard, but that is it with minimal shielding. Ganymede and Europa would need to be buried deep to be survivable, but tidal stress on them would make that sort of construction impossible. Io could cook eggs on the surface, without the vulcanism. Titan's atmoshpere will make a big difference here. Radiation at the surface should be about earth levels or lower.

As far as our solar system goes, it would be the best colonization site (other than Earth or course), bar none. At least that I am aware of.

EDIT
On the count of temp, Titan is a bit on the chilly side. But it is MUCH easier to heat something where it is cold than to try and cool it in a hot environment.
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby procyon on Wed 22 Jun 2011 04:05

I'm not generally a fan of Wikipedia but if you take a quick look there at the composition of Titan and its atmosphere I think you would be able to see how easy it would be to colonize it compared to the rest of the solar system.

At least it saves going to the half dozen sites I was going to suggest. I suppose I should thank my co-workers for pointing this out to me....
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby Cralis on Thu 23 Jun 2011 00:08

I guess the experts I've been reading on must have come to different conclusions. The biggest problem with water on Titan is that it isn't pure, and it is so cold that it is harder than metals on Earth. The atmosphere isn't corrosive, but most serious plans for colonization are currently looking at being underground so that isn't as big of a deal as you'd think. The biggest advantage with Titan's atmosphere is that you wouldn't have nearly as many meteorites (and bigger) impact on the surface.

Right now the intermediate step is looking towards Europa because it wouldn't be too difficult to sink a base into the ice and then tap the liquid water below. Water can be split into oxygen for air and hydrogen for fuel, so the two biggest needs are mostly met right there. Plus it is a convenient half-way point (most of the time anyway), and there are a TON of nearby moons and asteroids with metals and minerals we'd need. And the energy torus presents us with some unique energy collection possibilities if we can harvest the energy from the high-energy particles zipping around inside it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you that your designation in the game is wrong. I just found it an interesting choice, and a good game choice as far as making things interesting. But in reality there is a lot more variables involved :)
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby procyon on Fri 24 Jun 2011 02:17

Cralis wrote:Right now the intermediate step is looking towards Europa because it wouldn't be too difficult to sink a base into the ice and then tap the liquid water below.


Not sure that would work so well. Here's why. :geek:

Surface builds would have a huge radiation issue to deal with, but that would likely be easier to deal with than sub-surface structures. Why? Unless your colonists are eskimos, they probably expect their habitat to be above the freezing point of water. Impuriities in the ice will lower the freezing point even more. Unless it had massive thermal insulation and great ability to vent heat, the base is going to sink in the ice. The fact that the ice will be fairly transparent to most high freq EM radiation means this base is going to soak it up, creating more heat that will need to be drawn off and vented. Kind of like a rock in the ice of a pond, it will just keep sinking deeper and deeper.
Surface instability due to the tidal forces from Jupiter and Io would make any habitiat, surface or sub-surface rather dicey though. With a projected thickness of less than 100km, and most projections giving the ice a thickness of 30-50km, you are likely to lose your habitat to shifting ice.


Cralis wrote:The biggest problem with water on Titan is that it isn't pure, and it is so cold that it is harder than metals on Earth.


Not quite so hard as granite, but close. But that intense cold is a good thing from an engineering standpoint. Very stable for a structure. You also have low radiation making the surface a good choice. From a construction standpoint, you get something hot to bore into the ice and then sink pilings. Build on the pilings with adequate clearance from the surface to ensure that the pilings exchange enough heat with Titan's thick atmosphere (approx four times as dense even if the pressure is only 1.4 stm) to prevent melting of the substrate. The nice thing about the low temp is that ice doesn't sublime on Titan, and won't be subject to decay from radiation because there just isn't much that will make it to the surface. Your foundation will be fairly static. As for dirty water, distillation would be a fairly simple process. Mining it will be a chore, but water will be nearly as hard as granite on Europa and you would need heavy mining equipment, explosives, or heaters just like on Titan. Just Europa's ice will be much less stable for construction.
Atmosphere for the habitats would be easy. Titan's atm is primarily N2,with trace methane/ethane. It does have enough cyandide to give you a headache, but it would be easily scrubbed with carbon filters you could synthesize from available compounds. As for the methane/ethane, if you really wanted to save it you could run Titan's 'air' through a compressor after you warmed it and turn those compounds to a liquid and vent them off. The best plan I saw was to simply introduce O2 (from the water electrolysis you talk about - and you want those impurities to catalyze this) to blend with the 'air' and then combust the methane/ethane. Waste heat will provide warmth for the habitat while the CO2 generated will help with gas proportion of the air you plan on introducing to the habitat.

As for Europa being a nice intermediate step, it is closer. But its location isn't exactly ideal. Jupiter is a magnet for debris and the nearby main belt asteroids / trojan's give a fair chance for an interloper. There have been several recorded incidents of Jupiter sucking in debris in the time we have been watching it. Saturn is farther out, and it doesn't have a trojan belt of its own - so little chance of a stray rock messing things up, with the thick atmosphere giving you a buffer if it does.

But I may be showing some of my work history here.

And if you would like a telling little tidbit.... for as close as Europa is, we have at best done fly-bys. Anything more has been shot down. And for as far as Titan is out, we have already put a lander on the surface to take a look. Kind of unusual for a moon so far away to get the same sort of attention we have only given the moon and Mars.... ;)
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: Sol System layout in Nemesis Camp

Postby Cralis on Fri 24 Jun 2011 08:25

procyon wrote:
Cralis wrote:Right now the intermediate step is looking towards Europa because it wouldn't be too difficult to sink a base into the ice and then tap the liquid water below.


Surface builds would have a huge radiation issue to deal with, but that would likely be easier to deal with than sub-surface structures. Why? Unless your colonists are eskimos, they probably expect their habitat to be above the freezing point of water. Impuriities in the ice will lower the freezing point even more. Unless it had massive thermal insulation and great ability to vent heat, the base is going to sink in the ice. The fact that the ice will be fairly transparent to most high freq EM radiation means this base is going to soak it up, creating more heat that will need to be drawn off and vented. Kind of like a rock in the ice of a pond, it will just keep sinking deeper and deeper.


Ventilating the heat and insulating the surrounding ice from the base is not that big of a problem. In fact, we do the opposite trying to trap heat with geo-homes now. I've seen papers tackling that very problem because that is going to be a common problem no matter where we go unless we can find a planet with liquid water and dry land.

Surface instability due to the tidal forces from Jupiter and Io would make any habitiat, surface or sub-surface rather dicey though. With a projected thickness of less than 100km, and most projections giving the ice a thickness of 30-50km, you are likely to lose your habitat to shifting ice.


That is more of a concern, and was the subject of one interesting paper I read a while back. They aren't so concerned with the ice shifting because it is all trapped in locked plates, they are more concerned with the flexing from the small tidal stresses Europa feels. One proposal was to sink the base all the way down into the liquid water, but then surface access becomes an issue.

But that is also part of the reason why some think Callisto or Ganymede might be better - the composition isn't so prone to flexing.

Cralis wrote:The biggest problem with water on Titan is that it isn't pure, and it is so cold that it is harder than metals on Earth.


Not quite so hard as granite, but close. But that intense cold is a good thing from an engineering standpoint. Very stable for a structure. You also have low radiation making the surface a good choice. From a construction standpoint, you get something hot to bore into the ice and then sink pilings. Build on the pilings with adequate clearance from the surface to ensure that the pilings exchange enough heat with Titan's thick atmosphere (approx four times as dense even if the pressure is only 1.4 stm) to prevent melting of the substrate. The nice thing about the low temp is that ice doesn't sublime on Titan, and won't be subject to decay from radiation because there just isn't much that will make it to the surface. Your foundation will be fairly static. As for dirty water, distillation would be a fairly simple process. Mining it will be a chore, but water will be nearly as hard as granite on Europa and you would need heavy mining equipment, explosives, or heaters just like on Titan. Just Europa's ice will be much less stable for construction.


Europa has the advantage of pure liquid water down below and you can drill for it. Much easier than mining or harvesting ice, and you don't have to melt it. There are technical problems to overcome (such as preventing the pipeline from freezing), but it can be done.

Surface construction will be much easier, true, but it will also be subject to weather, which may be bad. We still don't have any idea how severe the weather can get there.

Atmosphere for the habitats would be easy. Titan's atm is primarily N2,with trace methane/ethane. It does have enough cyandide to give you a headache, but it would be easily scrubbed with carbon filters you could synthesize from available compounds. As for the methane/ethane, if you really wanted to save it you could run Titan's 'air' through a compressor after you warmed it and turn those compounds to a liquid and vent them off. The best plan I saw was to simply introduce O2 (from the water electrolysis you talk about - and you want those impurities to catalyze this) to blend with the 'air' and then combust the methane/ethane. Waste heat will provide warmth for the habitat while the CO2 generated will help with gas proportion of the air you plan on introducing to the habitat.


That's an interesting idea. Methane could also be used for other purposes (such as cooking heat) instead of just general heating. Although heating would be necessary... very interesting.

As for Europa being a nice intermediate step, it is closer. But its location isn't exactly ideal. Jupiter is a magnet for debris and the nearby main belt asteroids / trojan's give a fair chance for an interloper. There have been several recorded incidents of Jupiter sucking in debris in the time we have been watching it. Saturn is farther out, and it doesn't have a trojan belt of its own - so little chance of a stray rock messing things up, with the thick atmosphere giving you a buffer if it does.


Sub-surface construction is much more likely to be the case to prevent meteorites. Remember that Saturn has belts that do move around, so there is likely to be lots of debris hitting Saturn's belts. While Saturn doesn't suck up as much as Jupiter, it still has a small colony of Lagrange asteroids so it does suck up some.

But I may be showing some of my work history here.

And if you would like a telling little tidbit.... for as close as Europa is, we have at best done fly-bys. Anything more has been shot down. And for as far as Titan is out, we have already put a lander on the surface to take a look. Kind of unusual for a moon so far away to get the same sort of attention we have only given the moon and Mars.... ;)


We've put a lander on Venus, and we keep sending orbiters to Mercury, but I don't see us putting habitats there any time soon.

We explore Venus because of its caustic atmosphere. Mercury because it is the only other rocky planet with a significant magnetic field. And Titan because it has a thick atmosphere. It has little to nothing to do with plans to build a colony at any of those locations.

But I would note that Galileo was sent long before Cassini. And there are 3 more probes being planned for Jupiter, and none for Saturn.
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