DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

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DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Fri 15 Feb 2019 15:33

Two questions:
1) Intelligence from ruins: The rules as they stand allow the young races to get data to help EL research from the ruins about their homeworld, but what about research in other areas? And is it possible to find other kinds of data, like locations of WP and other survey data?

2) How would you balance GG5.06 Unusual Life-Forms? I'm think of making the Mardukanian's T2 and player races offerings of T7, ST5, H1, H6, B3, B8, and F, how do I balance the initial setup and keep populations the same?

I'm also thinking of increasing the starting fund sizes to one months income of the races with the lowest income.
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Fri 15 Feb 2019 16:11

SCC wrote:Two questions:
1) Intelligence from ruins: The rules as they stand allow the young races to get data to help EL research from the ruins about their homeworld, but what about research in other areas? And is it possible to find other kinds of data, like locations of WP and other survey data?


House rule in additional options. Here are some ideas I might use:
* location of all WPs in the star system
* bonus RP (+d10) to random research you are researching
* free breakthrough
* navigation map to next closest ruins
* tech copy of random tech system

2) How would you balance GG5.06 Unusual Life-Forms? I'm think of making the Mardukanian's T2 and player races offerings of T7, ST5, H1, H6, B3, B8, and F, how do I balance the initial setup and keep populations the same?


A lot of math... and you won’t be able to keep the starting population sizes the same. ULFs were balanced in respect to total population sizes in an entire galaxy of 1000 and 10,000 systems. We didn’t completely balanced them for population growth rates or colonization costs. There are just too many variables to make it perfect. And we didn’t consider player race starting values at all (though in the future we will take a stab at it).

I'm also thinking of increasing the starting fund sizes to one months income of the races with the lowest income.


Why not the largest one? Why not just use the arbitrary section K values?
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Sat 16 Feb 2019 01:00

Cralis wrote:
SCC wrote:Two questions:
1) Intelligence from ruins: The rules as they stand allow the young races to get data to help EL research from the ruins about their homeworld, but what about research in other areas? And is it possible to find other kinds of data, like locations of WP and other survey data?


House rule in additional options. Here are some ideas I might use:
* location of all WPs in the star system
* bonus RP (+d10) to random research you are researching
* free breakthrough
* navigation map to next closest ruins
* tech copy of random tech system

Going through Section U I might simply leave half destroyed designs in orbit around each races homeworld and apply the Section U and N9.03.1 and N9.03.2 all as written.

Interesting note about table U5A, the bottom half is not really desirable in this situation, but there's not way to get those results.

Cralis wrote:
2) How would you balance GG5.06 Unusual Life-Forms? I'm think of making the Mardukanian's T2 and player races offerings of T7, ST5, H1, H6, B3, B8, and F, how do I balance the initial setup and keep populations the same?


A lot of math... and you won’t be able to keep the starting population sizes the same. ULFs were balanced in respect to total population sizes in an entire galaxy of 1000 and 10,000 systems. We didn’t completely balanced them for population growth rates or colonization costs. There are just too many variables to make it perfect. And we didn’t consider player race starting values at all (though in the future we will take a stab at it).

Well GG.06.10.1 says that each race should get the same starting population of 2,000 PU (Except for F, they get no direct mentions but there's an extensive note for I races that seems like it applies to them instead). DD1.03.1 overides this with: "The races have only exploited their homeworld and moons, all with full populations. No other planet in their home system has any colonies, but all of the worlds have been surveyed, and the home system has its frst open WP survey completed". This is a problem for me because they should all start with the same population, but limited to a single planet and it's moon's means that B and F life will have lower populations.

Cralis wrote:
I'm also thinking of increasing the starting fund sizes to one months income of the races with the lowest income.


Why not the largest one? Why not just use the arbitrary section K values?

Well DD1.03.1 says they get Survey and Battle Funds of 600 MCr and Other gets 200 MCr to simulate the situation. Those numbers are low, so low that you can only just afford 10 survey ships. One month for each fund sounds much better.

I'll be enforcing an SOP that says their ships are to fire on any ship that looks Mardukanian until are are in possession of information about each other, so the players may very well fire upon each other the first time they meet!

There will be NPR's inside the former empire, specifically every planet that can be habitable by one race has a 50% chance of having a population on it. T/ST worlds get 180 Mardukanian PTU, half of these believe themselves to be the legitimate successor and so will go to war with one another and expect the former slave races to submit to them, the other half use a fresh stat roll, with a slant towards those forced to cower beneath defenses being pacifists, hippies or or some sort of reformists. When encountering a Mardukanian population the players must make War Checks.

While other types get 60 of whatever race considers the world habitable, with fresh stat rolls. Any guidance on how they react to being reunited with their parent race?
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Sun 17 Feb 2019 10:30

SCC wrote:Going through Section U I might simply leave half destroyed designs in orbit around each races homeworld and apply the Section U and N9.03.1 and N9.03.2 all as written.


Actually, that's a pretty good idea.

Interesting note about table U5A, the bottom half is not really desirable in this situation, but there's not way to get those results.


It's in the rules. The upper parts of that table are reached by using modifiers gained by capturing populations.

Well GG.06.10.1 says that each race should get the same starting population of 2,000 PU (Except for F, they get no direct mentions but there's an extensive note for I races that seems like it applies to them instead). DD1.03.1 overides this with: "The races have only exploited their homeworld and moons, all with full populations. No other planet in their home system has any colonies, but all of the worlds have been surveyed, and the home system has its frst open WP survey completed". This is a problem for me because they should all start with the same population, but limited to a single planet and it's moon's means that B and F life will have lower populations.


First, GG5.06.10.1 says 2000 PU for all but B worlds, which have a 900+200 PU starting amount. And that's actually VERY important because they have the fastest potential growth out of all the racial types. Either way, as you noted it hasn't been modified for the change to add Cold Gaseous (I races) (which has 2000 PU setup) and separate Cryophilic (now the F race) (500 PU homeworld + 1000 PU on the rest of the system, using Type-F worlds first). That's going into the next version, so I'll just give you what we are adding. :)

Second, the particulars of the Mardukian campaign do not consider any part of GG5.06. Even if everyone was the exact same racial type, their home systems are going to be slightly different so the exploitation is going to be different. Honestly, if you use GG5.06 then I would attempt to fulfill DD1.03.1 but limit the races to the PU totals given in GG5.06.10.1 ... if that means they don't fully exploit the moons, then so be it. And if it means that a Type-F race needs to populate more than a single world, then do that too.

Well DD1.03.1 says they get Survey and Battle Funds of 600 MCr and Other gets 200 MCr to simulate the situation. Those numbers are low, so low that you can only just afford 10 survey ships. One month for each fund sounds much better.


The campaign concept has smaller initial fleet sizes to give it a particular feel. It does have a slower start but it's appropriate to the look and feel of the campaign. If you change that, keep in mind that you are changing the look and feel of the campaign. And that with the larger exploitation footprint, the race will make up for it in the first few months of building.

I'll be enforcing an SOP that says their ships are to fire on any ship that looks Mardukanian until are are in possession of information about each other, so the players may very well fire upon each other the first time they meet!


Heh. As a fellow SM, I approve! :lol:

There will be NPR's inside the former empire, specifically every planet that can be habitable by one race has a 50% chance of having a population on it. T/ST worlds get 180 Mardukanian PTU, half of these believe themselves to be the legitimate successor and so will go to war with one another and expect the former slave races to submit to them, the other half use a fresh stat roll, with a slant towards those forced to cower beneath defenses being pacifists, hippies or or some sort of reformists. When encountering a Mardukanian population the players must make War Checks.

While other types get 60 of whatever race considers the world habitable, with fresh stat rolls. Any guidance on how they react to being reunited with their parent race?


The Mardukian empire is supposed to be intact, just relatively dormant. Having it fight with itself is going to put it at a severe disadvantage against the players. But if you have populations from the prior races inside the empire, then they should have a bonus to make treaties AFTER the population is no longer "conquered." They'll just understand each other better than a different race would.
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Mon 18 Feb 2019 02:43

Cralis wrote:It's in the rules. The upper parts of that table are reached by using modifiers gained by capturing populations.

Ah, I'm used to the modifiers being at the bottom of the table.

Cralis wrote:First, GG5.06.10.1 says 2000 PU for all but B worlds, which have a 900+200 PU starting amount. And that's actually VERY important because they have the fastest potential growth out of all the racial types. Either way, as you noted it hasn't been modified for the change to add Cold Gaseous (I races) (which has 2000 PU setup) and separate Cryophilic (now the F race) (500 PU homeworld + 1000 PU on the rest of the system, using Type-F worlds first). That's going into the next version, so I'll just give you what we are adding. :)

That's not my take on the setup for B races, which is two planets each with 900 PU on them plus the 200 PU in the belt.

Cralis wrote:Second, the particulars of the Mardukian campaign do not consider any part of GG5.06. Even if everyone was the exact same racial type, their home systems are going to be slightly different so the exploitation is going to be different. Honestly, if you use GG5.06 then I would attempt to fulfill DD1.03.1 but limit the races to the PU totals given in GG5.06.10.1 ... if that means they don't fully exploit the moons, then so be it. And if it means that a Type-F race needs to populate more than a single world, then do that too.

There would be imbalances in a normal game, I'm just trying to stop them from getting worse in my game.

Cralis wrote:
Well DD1.03.1 says they get Survey and Battle Funds of 600 MCr and Other gets 200 MCr to simulate the situation. Those numbers are low, so low that you can only just afford 10 survey ships. One month for each fund sounds much better.


The campaign concept has smaller initial fleet sizes to give it a particular feel. It does have a slower start but it's appropriate to the look and feel of the campaign. If you change that, keep in mind that you are changing the look and feel of the campaign. And that with the larger exploitation footprint, the race will make up for it in the first few months of building.

Given that I'm going to be giving them free expansion intelligence, at least in the matter of surveying systems and the possibilities of easier trade it might not be bad to use the original numbers.

Cralis wrote:
There will be NPR's inside the former empire, specifically every planet that can be habitable by one race has a 50% chance of having a population on it. T/ST worlds get 180 Mardukanian PTU, half of these believe themselves to be the legitimate successor and so will go to war with one another and expect the former slave races to submit to them, the other half use a fresh stat roll, with a slant towards those forced to cower beneath defenses being pacifists, hippies or or some sort of reformists. When encountering a Mardukanian population the players must make War Checks.

While other types get 60 of whatever race considers the world habitable, with fresh stat rolls. Any guidance on how they react to being reunited with their parent race?


The Mardukian empire is supposed to be intact, just relatively dormant. Having it fight with itself is going to put it at a severe disadvantage against the players. But if you have populations from the prior races inside the empire, then they should have a bonus to make treaties AFTER the population is no longer "conquered." They'll just understand each other better than a different race would.

The setup says to destroy any population outside of the home system and that WP are to be surrounded by AP and many planets AP and/or have PDC's on them, all of which shoot at the any thing that approaches, that doesn't sound like lying dormant or not fighting itself.
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Mon 18 Feb 2019 21:22

SCC wrote:
Cralis wrote:It's in the rules. The upper parts of that table are reached by using modifiers gained by capturing populations.

Ah, I'm used to the modifiers being at the bottom of the table.


Section U will be getting some serious updates in the update after this next update. We actually have a LOT of stuff to add to it.

That's not my take on the setup for B races, which is two planets each with 900 PU on them plus the 200 PU in the belt.


Ah... you are correct. In my haste to type it, I failed to say "900 PU each". My mistake. But what I said about that particular configuration being important still stands.

There would be imbalances in a normal game, I'm just trying to stop them from getting worse in my game.


I totally understand.

Given that I'm going to be giving them free expansion intelligence, at least in the matter of surveying systems and the possibilities of easier trade it might not be bad to use the original numbers.


It means that they won't need massive survey fleets to start, true.

The setup says to destroy any population outside of the home system and that WP are to be surrounded by AP and many planets AP and/or have PDC's on them, all of which shoot at the any thing that approaches, that doesn't sound like lying dormant or not fighting itself.


Ah... that's what I get for responding from work without reading. I was remembering part of the setup for DD1.02 and confusing the Imperium setup for DD1.02 and not the Mardukan Setup for DD1.03 ... my apologies. You're understanding here is correct and I'm wrong.

I just went back and re-read the section so I could remember it correctly. I still would give you the same advice, that the "former" world re-united with their original race should have a bonus to the whole conquer and treaty process so that it goes faster than it would with a different race. Perhaps double the chance of success?
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Mon 18 Feb 2019 23:30

Cralis wrote:Ah... that's what I get for responding from work without reading. I was remembering part of the setup for DD1.02 and confusing the Imperium setup for DD1.02 and not the Mardukan Setup for DD1.03 ... my apologies. You're understanding here is correct and I'm wrong.

I just went back and re-read the section so I could remember it correctly. I still would give you the same advice, that the "former" world re-united with their original race should have a bonus to the whole conquer and treaty process so that it goes faster than it would with a different race. Perhaps double the chance of success?

I'm thinking any empires that consist only of Mardukanian populations, excluding any conquered populations, that count the mother empire roll against (RD+RM)/2, if they fail the immediately re-join the empire, additionally any Mardukanian population conquered by the empire upon entering the Peace Phase joins the empire as an imperial population.
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Tue 19 Feb 2019 14:37

Why not use Racial Outlook for the roll? It will even the results out. Otherwise I’d probably just use RD.
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Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Tue 19 Feb 2019 21:23

Cralis wrote:Why not use Racial Outlook for the roll? It will even the results out. Otherwise I’d probably just use RD.

I was originally going to use RD, but felt that RM should probably also apply, I did consider RO, but felt that RC didn't really apply.
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