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Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Tue 03 Sep 2013 23:38
by SCC
The problem with conquering most single system NPR's you'll find isn't firepower early on but troops, sure those ships can probably waste whatever defense force the NPR has but unless you want to commit Genocide for Fun and Profit you've got to land troops

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Tue 03 Sep 2013 23:52
by Vandervecken
I've got a question Olivertheorem, since it is up to you as the player empire, why do you conduct your probe at the Strategic movement level, when most Probes take 10 minutes or much less? You can switch between each level and time frame as desired/needed.

An example where T = Turn, D = Day, H = Hour, and M = Minute.

T1-D1-H1-M1.0 Probing force conducts Probing S.O.P. (Lets say this takes 8 tactical turns to conduct a very basic Probe S.O.P.)

T1-D1-H1-M4.5 Element B of Probing force returns to Homesystem (If no Unusual Terrain or encounter happens). Transfer Basic System data (per P5.01) - send back data to homeworld via Broadbeam (Homefully your Home system is secure, eh?)

T1-D1-H1-M5.0 All Survey vessels in Survey fleet X use WP#? (This takes a couple more minute but that is an insignificant portion of a Strategic movement point) and begin WP Survey (Or whatever survey you have in your S.O.P.)

All the GMs that I have had, allow me to conduct a Full WP Survey using all 3 MSS with my Survey fleet after conducting a Probe that takes 30 Tactical turns (15 minutes) or less and Drakar never did tell me how long it would take for me to not get that 1st MSS but I never pushed it with an over-elaberate Probe S.O.P.. ( Some empires will get 4 MSS, if it went and used K3 to get Xb at start. but at worst, you still will get 2 MSS if GM says that less than 1/100th of a turn in probe time still prevents fleet from using one of the MSS. (at worst 3 of 4 if you have Xb)

In fact, I don't even use the 6 impulse chart for anything but WP battles. I do all my calculations based on speed divided by 30 days, (This syncs Movement up with MSS much more easily as well - but that is how I play.)

1 speed/MSS = 30 days
2 speed/MSS = 15 days
3 speed/MSS = 10 days
4 speed/MSS = 7 days, 12 hours
5 speed/MSS = 6 days
6 speed/MSS = 5 days
7 speed = 4 days, 6 hous, 43 minutes

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 00:02
by SCC
It's got to do with the example SOP for probing WP (I think) while sending the first ships through the WP doesn't take any time if you want them to travel back so that the other ships know it's safe to come through one of the probe ships has to travel back, and that take a StMP

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 00:19
by Vandervecken
That is a BAD example (in my opinion) as according to the movement rules, you can do WP jumps on consecutive turns, but never the same turn. Most of us can figure that 30 seconds or even a few minutes if you add some Probe time is soooo much less than 1 movement impulse (5 days). [5 minutes is 1/3600 of 5 days]; what do the probers do for those other 3599/3600th if the Strategic move impulse, knit sweaters?) That is 4.998611 days wasted for a 10 tac move probe, really basic ones can only last 1 or 2 minutes.

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 00:44
by Cralis
SCC wrote:It's got to do with the example SOP for probing WP (I think) while sending the first ships through the WP doesn't take any time if you want them to travel back so that the other ships know it's safe to come through one of the probe ships has to travel back, and that take a StMP


If you are talking about CC4.02.1, then it is talking about how often you should probe (one WP per StMP) and not how long it takes.

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 00:58
by SCC
Cralis wrote:
SCC wrote:It's got to do with the example SOP for probing WP (I think) while sending the first ships through the WP doesn't take any time if you want them to travel back so that the other ships know it's safe to come through one of the probe ships has to travel back, and that take a StMP


If you are talking about CC4.02.1, then it is talking about how often you should probe (one WP per StMP) and not how long it takes.

Actually it's example R2, here's the text in question:
The fleet wishes to probe system ?? and if there is a blue giant and no NPR, survey that system. The probe is sent out (while the fleet waits in #2) and reports no aliens plus a blue giant. This uses the first StMP of the month for both the probe and the survey fleet. The survey fleet enters the new system (#5) and begins surveying on StMP #2 and will if they have enough ships be able to complete the survey by the end of the month.

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 01:09
by Vandervecken
I see where the (MY) confusion is. it is the Term "Probing Movement" which is a special kind of movement and not to be confused with a WP probe which most Survey ships conduct to some degree. Probing movement takes 1 StMP, WP probes don't even need to be done but usually take minutes. But note that populations of 1000+ can be located from the WP location without "Probing Movement"; smaller stuff is harder to find and prudent empires will often use "Probing Movement" found in Q2.02. Also note that as written Q2.02 is useless when using Unusual Life Forms (Optional rule GG5.06) which I do use, which is hopefully why I didn't remember Q2.02, eh ?

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 18:20
by olivertheorem
Short answer to your earlier question, Vandervecken: Because (1) I'm learning and (2) I thought a WP transit burned a StMP anyway.

Edit: You also all forgot that I rolled them as a straight-up NPR, so the 5,000 MCr starting funds from section K didn't apply.

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 20:02
by Vandervecken
olivertheorem wrote:Edit: You also all forgot that I rolled them as a straight-up NPR, so the 5,000 MCr starting funds from section K didn't apply.


I'm actually starting to remember. :shock: My Starting funds data was in response to SCCs comment before me.

Just hoping you can get cooking soon. Looking to see what your small empire can/will do.

Re: General Comments

PostPosted: Wed 04 Sep 2013 20:50
by olivertheorem
Me too! Stuff keeps getting in the way.

Stuff like XCOM. :P That and being too burned out at looking at numbers due to my job to think this game through.