ship design encyclopedia

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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby Vandervecken on Thu 02 Aug 2012 05:52

dazrand wrote:Only because it does not ship with dice I am sure :D


Ahhh, the ultimate in "Take 4D10 in damage", ouch.

Over 20 years ago, one of my fellow role-players was so fed up with his consistant and continuous bad die rolling that he threw them against the basement wall of his home, and one of the 2 hit the concrete wall so hard that he powdered most of that die. They were the old, softer plastic D&D dice TSR used to have.
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Thu 02 Aug 2012 06:01

Be thankful that they weren't solid brass dice. Those things DO cause 4d10 physical damage.
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby Elminster on Thu 02 Aug 2012 06:04

One of my friends once made a full brass D20, about 2 inch in diameter. Gives the term "Take 1D20 damage." a real meaning. :twisted:

But he had to avoid glass tables. :lol:
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E = MC^2 + 1d10
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Thu 02 Aug 2012 06:17

One of those would make a nice SRW. Great for taking down soft targets.
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby procyon on Fri 03 Aug 2012 07:01

Vandervecken wrote:dazrand wrote:
Only because it does not ship with dice I am sure


Ahhh, the ultimate in "Take 4D10 in damage", ouch.


Oh, we have lots of dice.
And I have ducked my fair share over time. And sometimes not... :?

Although the worst was when I made the 11 y/o his first slingshot some years back. None of my loving family managed to see him first....
:lol:


AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:Why not place the second D between the Qb and the aft engine rooms?


I am pretty sure (can see design from this screen) that everything after the last D is 'survival' stuff she considers more important. The Sra, ?a, a Q so the life support doesn't fail (stinks to have your ship slick off for repairs just to die from lack of support - and no Q gives you a minus of Em Repairs). These all make the ship harder to hit/kill when the BCs are doing all the D work. So that is why those are at the back.

As I said, when it is in the fleet - keeping the D to the last isn't going to help the three BCs providing the escort point defense. And when it breaks off from the fleet to sneak off - one D isn't going to save it if the ship is found by the 'bad guys'.
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Tue 07 Aug 2012 20:38

I really need to start thinking in campaign terms rather than a single battle.
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby procyon on Wed 08 Aug 2012 20:23

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:I really need to start thinking in campaign terms rather than a single battle.


As my wife would tell you...

Lose one ship you have had for several hundred turns because you screwed up the design - and you learn.

And she has had several opportunities to do this.
Some worse than others.
She has a number of counters that are hand drawn pictures of the ships. Some have been around for years, and fought in dozens of campaigns. Some ships have been the flagships of a favorite admiral. Others have survived horrible battles and saved countless systems at one time or another.

There have been several battles that she lost one of these ships - and where the table has sat out for days afterward, because she can't bare to put the counter away for the last time....
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Wed 08 Aug 2012 20:32

The last time I was that attached to a ship was 20 years ago in a SFB campaign. I was running the Kzin and my flagship was the SSCS Richon. It survived the trip to the center od the cluster we were playing in only because the Federation player decided to screen my flank from opposing forces.
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby Club on Fri 05 Oct 2012 00:55

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Redbeard-class CTb AM1 3-XOe 19 HS/14 TS
[4] S1x6A2x4ZeMgs(jeJe)Ht(Je)Qb(Je)Ya(Je)Pte [9/2.5]
Trg:1 PV=21 Cost= 413/62 SL9 {ULTRA}
21 HTK S1x6 A2x4 Ptex1 Yax1 Zex1
XO Load - Pte x1 standard

A light, PT armed ship. Designed to be fast and agile enough to get in the plasma torpedoes optimal range, stay there, and hammer other starships into swiss cheese.

In order to make the ship as small yet tough as it is, design tradeoffs were made. The big ones were the lack of a ECM unit, and the deliberately undersized, primitive sensor suite. Since ECM doesn't do much outside of SRW range (given we haven't run into any LRW other than PT yet) it's of limited use to a ship that isn't supposed to get into SRW range. The mass freed up let us build in much denser passives. The sensors are a bigger problem, but so long as we manage to keep from operating inside a nebula, they are sufficient to supply targeting data to the installed weapon.

Like the Reaver class DD, the Redbeard is supposed to operate in squadrons with the Raider FG supplying point defense. The current plan it to deploy squadrons of 8 Redbeards and 2 Raiders. Practical experience might change this ratio in either direction, with a 9-and-1 ratio or a 7-and-3 both being considered. It is glaringly obvious that the ship is very vulnerable to smallcraft squadrons; this will likely be the determining factor.

One system that might have been considered an unnecessary expense is the advanced maneuvering suite on the engines. Since the Redbeard is supposed to operate with the Raider, leaving the two ships with the same performance envelope was considered. The possibility that a Redbeard might be operating without Raider support, due either to the enemy targeting a squadron's Raiders first, or a Redbeard's datalink being shot out, justified the systems inclusion in Buship's opinion.

An undersized Redbeard with only 3 shields was also considered, being only 17 HS in size. This would let us squeeze an extra ship into a datalink squadron, as well as improving the ship's firepower-to-cost ratio. However, the additional defenses were retained in the production model.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raider - class FG(e) AM1 4-XOe 22 HS/13 TS
[5] S1A2x6Zi(Je)(Je)Ht(Je)Dcza(Je)DczaQb(Je)?a(Je)Pge [9/3]
Trg:1 Def-1 PV=25 Cost= 500/75
19 HTK S1x1 A2x6 ?ax1 Pgex1 Dczax2
XO load - Variable. Options are EDMa (Standard) or Xo-beam(Le)

The same ship designed to provide defensive fire to the new Reaver DD squadrons - see earlier post on page 3, this thread.

A variant is under consideration that would remove one of the unit's Z modules, and use the space freed up to change the plasma gun for a third point defense system. This would weaken the ship in the datagroup defense role in favor of optimizing it for anti-smallcraft work.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Redbeard (N)-class CTb AM1 3-XOe 19 HS/14 TS
[4] A2x10ZeMgs(jeJe)Ht(Je)Qb(Je)Ye(Je)Pte [9/2.5]
Trg:1 PV=22 Cost= 436/65.4 SL9 {ULTRA}
21 HTK A2x10 Ptex1 Yex1 Zex1
XO Load - Pte x1 standard

A variant of the standard Redbeard, meant to provide a system patrol in nebular starsystems. The shields are stripped in order to thicken the armor belt and install a more modern sensor suite. While even the newer sensors don't allow use of the Pte's full range in degraded sensor environments, it does allow the unit to engage in its optimal range band. Since the enemy will likely be operating with similar problems, this is considered acceptable, if not optimal.
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Re: ship design encyclopedia

Postby procyon on Fri 05 Oct 2012 02:18

Club wrote:A light, PT armed ship. Designed to be fast and agile enough to get in the plasma torpedoes optimal range, stay there, and hammer other starships into swiss cheese.


I like this ship.
The 120 degree blindspot and TM of 4 will handicap its ability to dictate range - but the saving grace is that against a more agile (I) engined ship - its speed of 9 should be able to extend easily if it doesn't like the situation.

Club wrote:The big ones were the lack of a ECM unit,


I agree with your leaving it off.
At this EL - this ship's nemesis will be FQ. It can outrun a GB sqn, but subracting one pt from the SRW damage roll of the sqns shooting at it while it engages other ships - won't help you much. S regenerate and are cheaper for the HS.

And if a link of BCs or BBs decides to pick on one - well, the ECM isn't likely to save it anyway.

Club wrote:with the Raider FG supplying point defense

Club wrote:7-and-3


I would go with this ratio. Reason...
3 Raiders will give you 6 Dzca. This translates to 18 shots that don't stack.
That will be adequate to keep a sqn salvo of LRW from saturating the link.
And at 18 shots with a 4 to intercept - the average damage getting past will be enough to knock the target out of the link (if it is a Redbeard). That should be the signal for the damaged ship to extend and disengage - not hang around.

Club wrote:Raider - class FG(e) AM1 4-XOe 22 HS/13 TS
[5] S1A2x6Zi


This could be the only major weakness if your opponent figures it out.
It won't take much of a salvo to knock past on 7HTK of passives, eight and it is out of the link.
Once the Raiders are out of a link - this group is sqn fodder. None, individually, have a BASV that is going to scare anyone...

I would drop the Pge and ?a - and add to the passives. If the 'bad guys' are close enough to shoot at with the Pge - you need to be getting out of Dodge. And with a 120 degree blindspot - you probably won't get many shots before they get behind you anyway. The only major issue is that the Pge is at the back end of the ship. It would be an expensive refit to shift the whole line.

Club wrote:Redbeard (N)-


I like this idea. But here is a thought. You may have already figured this out - but for those that haven't, here it is.

You only need to have one of these in every group to make EVERY group nebula capable. But you need to put a S on it.
Here is why.

With the S - it will appear the same as every other Redbeard in the group. Same weapon. Same XOs. SPD/TM.
Hard to pick out. The FG will draw fire, but not what appears to be just one more CTb.
But it will be able to share its sensor data with every member of the group. And in non-nebulas, this is a BIG range bonus. Now if you want to snipe at long range to see if they are holding onto sqns...

Just a thought. But I would add that S and make it standard in every group.
6 Redbeard, 3 Raider, 1 Redbeard (Y/N).

Dedicated nebula groups may have just the (Y/N) model, but if every group has one - then they can all fight much more effectively regardless of the system.

8-)
...and I will show you fear in a handful of dust....

Cralis wrote:I would point out that the "what was" which is different from "here and now" can easily change in the "future then."
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