Cp Tree

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Cp Tree

Postby Rhishisikk on Wed 16 Mar 2011 18:28

All, had a suggestion from a player that there should be a Cp tree, for races that don't discover I or J engines for a while. Remembering the "nutcracker" AF used in the Shiva Option, I can see practical applications. Looking at the S tree with its projects, I'm thinking maybe Cp can be a series of improvements rather than a static technology.

I now open the floor to ridicule and potentially useful comments.
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby krenshala on Wed 16 Mar 2011 20:29

Read the description. It is already built in that higher EL means more effective Cp engines.

Of course, they all pale in comparison to an I or J engine (not even mentioning the "better" engines at higher HELs). :)
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby procyon on Tue 22 Mar 2011 01:15

Our whole Nemasis Campaign is based on the Cp engine, and a bunch of house rules we have adopted for it.

And actually it can be a pretty powerful drive in the right situations. A CA moving at spd 6 and having a TM of 2 with a 3 hex range bonus for no drive can kill an EL3 CA. The slower I engine never usually gets in range, and the Cp ship kills it from too far out. The fact that the Cp ship has only a single hex spine blindspot makes it impossible for the I engine CA to get out of its line of fire. The fact that the Cp ship only has to devote half as many HS to engines usually means it carries more weapons than its I engine counterparts.

Against J engines the speed isn't such an advantage, but the range advantage gets bigger. And when they draw in range, the Cp engines tiny TM helps to find a blindspot and hold onto it.

The fact those Cp ships are nearly invisible (LOD equivalent), without having reduced sensor ranges makes them great commerce raiders and hard to track down. They see you LONG beofre you see them generally. They just have to shut down their shields.

Of course cruising at spd 1 kind of stinks. As does the modifier for your CFN....

Granted a force set up specifically to fight a Cp race will generally win, but in a lot of situations against what are considered 'standard' designs, the Cp ships do remarkably well.
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby Rhishisikk on Tue 22 Mar 2011 14:29

I've seen your rules for boarding actions and redlining the Cp drives. Are there others hiding in the Nemesis campaign?
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby PracticalM on Tue 22 Mar 2011 14:51

Hm Sounds like there are a couple of good technologies that Cp ships that would fit into a Cp branch.

Increased Strategic Speed

Some way to give the ship a DF equivalent so they don't take extra damage from missiles.
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby procyon on Tue 22 Mar 2011 22:23

One of our other rules has to do with the interaction of the Cp drive with our one other drive. Without reinventing the wheel, I wrote a fair piece about it over in the Cosmic forum on Starfire without WP. It about the 14th page in or so if you want to look at it.

As for protection from missiles, shields or not getting hit is the big ones for us.
Point defense becomes pretty vital.
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby Cralis on Tue 22 Mar 2011 23:56

PracticalM wrote:Hm Sounds like there are a couple of good technologies that Cp ships that would fit into a Cp branch.

Increased Strategic Speed

Some way to give the ship a DF equivalent so they don't take extra damage from missiles.


I've considered this, but then you have two problems.

First, you have Cp drives with some major advantages and fewer major disadvantages.
Second, you have to explain why you can't do that with everything else that doesn't already have a protective DF-like field. THAT is the bigger issue. Especially if you start considering using it to boost the defensive nature of an actual drive-field...
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby procyon on Wed 23 Mar 2011 00:52

On the thought of increased strategic speed, there is already a drive field stabilizer.
It wouldn't take to much to just call it a 'drive stabilizer' and apply it to Cp. Shouldn't make a huge difference by the time you get to that EL.

EDIT
And it wouldn't take much to house rule in an advanced Cp drive, a Cp(b) or whatever, that becomes available at a higher EL/SL that only took x2 damage if you really wanted to.

The unexpected thing we discovered during our Nemasis Campaign is that armor is pretty useless though. NO ONE researched it at all.
Last edited by procyon on Wed 23 Mar 2011 01:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby PracticalM on Wed 23 Mar 2011 01:05

Cralis wrote:First, you have Cp drives with some major advantages and fewer major disadvantages.
Second, you have to explain why you can't do that with everything else that doesn't already have a protective DF-like field. THAT is the bigger issue. Especially if you start considering using it to boost the defensive nature of an actual drive-field...


There are ways to balance it. If you look at Gt or Jc both of those drives are pretty powerful. And at some point you'll want to build Black Hole Drives when you get really high level.

The second reason isn't particularly valid. You just say you can't or it has no effect. It's not like you're going to be creating a system that is better at interdiction than a DF, you are giving a ship without a DF a DF like defense.
Considering that 3rdR had Je# systems, this isn't even something that had not already been done.
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Re: Cp Tree

Postby Cralis on Wed 23 Mar 2011 01:50

PracticalM wrote:
Cralis wrote:First, you have Cp drives with some major advantages and fewer major disadvantages.
Second, you have to explain why you can't do that with everything else that doesn't already have a protective DF-like field. THAT is the bigger issue. Especially if you start considering using it to boost the defensive nature of an actual drive-field...


There are ways to balance it. If you look at Gt or Jc both of those drives are pretty powerful. And at some point you'll want to build Black Hole Drives when you get really high level.


True, but those aren't available at SL0.

The second reason isn't particularly valid. You just say you can't or it has no effect. It's not like you're going to be creating a system that is better at interdiction than a DF, you are giving a ship without a DF a DF like defense.
Considering that 3rdR had Je# systems, this isn't even something that had not already been done.


Right, but the balance back then was quite a bit different. Cp was never intended to be as good as drive-field based drive systems, it was intended for NPR use only. Still, I suppose it can't hurt to look into it.
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