Tactical Combat Questions

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Tactical Combat Questions

Postby Elminster on Mon 04 Apr 2011 04:26

Yesterday I had a scenario combat and there some questions popped up:

1. "D5.03.3 Detecting Details" third last dot states that tech data can be obtained under certain circumstances. Then it mention science instruments (X but not sX). Question: Is Xp really supposed to do this, too?

2. "D4.03 Losing the Bridge" states, that losing the last Q implies a -1 modifier to rolls. Question: If the ship in question is the Flagship and there is no CIC present, does this mean that the Admiral is potantially killed and/or the ship loses Flagship status?

2.a If there is a CIC on board and still functioning, do the modifiers apply regardless?

3. If I use the pulsed movement for tactical combat, then declaring Engine Modulation for a ship, does this ship "lose" these MP and using his remaining MP to determine the movement column?

4. If a ship uses Engine Modulation do the spent MPs count for TM, too?
Example: Speed 5, TM 3
Declaring EM and moving 1tH + spending 3 MP for EM = 1 MP rest
then moving 1tH (or burning the MP in place) and turning 1 hex left
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Re: Tactical Combat Questions

Postby procyon on Mon 04 Apr 2011 05:06

To 1.
I'm a nobody so I'll pass on this one. We let it, but that's just us.

To 2 and 2a
S1.01 addresses Admiral survival. 70% chance to make it to an escape pod when aboard a ship that is destroyed. So losing a Q doesn't do in your big guy.
If you lost the CIC, he apparently has impecable timing and always needed to use the toilet just before it got hit..... :lol:

CIC affects init, Q affects the ship's function. They don't overlap.
Just because the ship lost life support doesn't mean the big guy isn't there in his vacc suit giving orders.

Now the interplay is a little tricky on the losing Q effecting the CIC.
D4.03 says the -1 is to all rolls, and affects init. So if it was your flagship I'd say the -1 carries over.
It also affects the crew bonus which was added to your admiral's bonus for init per B2.03.1.1 so that may drop your init bonus also.

To 3.
C8.01 says you have to declare EM before expending any MP....and its movement allowance is reduced by that much for that turn.

C2.03 says find the speed of the unit. Not its MP total.
So I would say you figure your speed, and use that for the turn.
But I don't use the chart so I could be missing a bunch of rules that would apply yet.

To 4.
As for using it for turn mode, I don't see any rules that say you can't or can. We never have. We just assume that it was used for a non-movement purpose and so doesn't count. But rules - wise I don't see anything covering it.
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Re: Tactical Combat Questions

Postby Elminster on Mon 04 Apr 2011 05:28

procyon wrote:To 2 and 2a
S1.01 addresses Admiral survival. 70% chance to make it to an escape pod when aboard a ship that is destroyed. So losing a Q doesn't do in your big guy.
If you lost the CIC, he apparently has impecable timing and always needed to use the toilet just before it got hit..... :lol:

An Admiral visiting the privy in the midst of a battle... :roll: :lol:

CIC affects init, Q affects the ship's function. They don't overlap.
Just because the ship lost life support doesn't mean the big guy isn't there in his vacc suit giving orders.

Now the interplay is a little tricky on the losing Q effecting the CIC.
D4.03 says the -1 is to all rolls, and affects init. So if it was your flagship I'd say the -1 carries over.
It also affects the crew bonus which was added to your admiral's bonus for init per B2.03.1.1 so that may drop your init bonus also.

Sounds good. (see note at end of post)

To 3.
C8.01 says you have to declare EM before expending any MP....and its movement allowance is reduced by that much for that turn.

C2.03 says find the speed of the unit. Not its MP total.
So I would say you figure your speed, and use that for the turn.
But I don't use the chart so I could be missing a bunch of rules that would apply yet.

Ah, yes, sounds good, too.

To 4.
As for using it for turn mode, I don't see any rules that say you can't or can. We never have. We just assume that it was used for a non-movement purpose and so doesn't count. But rules - wise I don't see anything covering it.

Maybe this should be clarified the one way or the other.

NOTE: While in the midst of resolving a tactical combat it is not easy to find the correct rule at the time you need it. Finding one rule dealing with one aspect of your problem but not linking to further or related rules is producing this kind of questions. But I admit, I should have investigated these questions in the aftermath for myself. :roll:
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Re: Tactical Combat Questions

Postby procyon on Mon 04 Apr 2011 05:42

I actually don't check the rules all that often...

But I never imagined how efficient a bunch of teen/pre-teen kids can be at it.
No work schedules. Only activities they worry about are their own.

They tend to be pro-active. They look / comb through the rules for a loophole to exploit.
Get together and work every angle of it.
And then trash me with them. Repeatedly. :shock:

I never realized I was actually raising a bunch of rules - lawyers... :D

But I have to say, from my point of view, that they are good teachers.
It just s***ks to be their student.
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Re: Tactical Combat Questions

Postby Starfire on Mon 04 Apr 2011 07:40

Elminster wrote:Yesterday I had a scenario combat and there some questions popped up:


1. "D5.03.3 Detecting Details" third last dot states that tech data can be obtained under certain circumstances. Then it mention science instruments (X but not sX). Question: Is Xp really supposed to do this, too?

Xp is not a science instrument. rules say so in the text of the x section.

2. "D4.03 Losing the Bridge" states, that losing the last Q implies a -1 modifier to rolls. Question: If the ship in question is the Flagship and there is no CIC present, does this mean that the Admiral is potantially killed and/or the ship loses Flagship status?


No. The flagship must be destroyed.

2.a If there is a CIC on board and still functioning, do the modifiers apply regardless?

yes, the -1 applies because all the CIC personnel will have to be suited up to live.

3. If I use the pulsed movement for tactical combat, then declaring Engine Modulation for a ship, does this ship "lose" these MP and using his remaining MP to determine the movement column?


Yes, the movement allowance IS specifically reduced prior to beginning movement, thus you use the lower speed.

4. If a ship uses Engine Modulation do the spent MPs count for TM, too?
Example: Speed 5, TM 3
Declaring EM and moving 1tH + spending 3 MP for EM = 1 MP rest
then moving 1tH (or burning the MP in place) and turning 1 hex left


Well, my first thought was no.
However, EM rules says the MP are EXPENDED and turn mode rules specifically says that EXPENDED MP are the ones that count. Note that Hard Turns specifically do not allow EM MP to count.
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Re: Tactical Combat Questions

Postby Cralis on Mon 04 Apr 2011 09:17

Starfire wrote:
4. If a ship uses Engine Modulation do the spent MPs count for TM, too?
Example: Speed 5, TM 3
Declaring EM and moving 1tH + spending 3 MP for EM = 1 MP rest
then moving 1tH (or burning the MP in place) and turning 1 hex left


Well, my first thought was no.
However, EM rules says the MP are EXPENDED and turn mode rules specifically says that EXPENDED MP are the ones that count. Note that Hard Turns specifically do not allow EM MP to count.


That might just be an unfortunate use of terminology on our part. If you think about it, MP used counts towards TM because it represents rotation over time. Even if you are "sitting in place" you can still rotate to turn. MP used towards EM does no such thing, it is engine power lost to deform the DF bubble. There is no rotation involved, and therefore cannot count towards TM. I.e. you are not turning, so how can you suddenly turn?
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Re: Tactical Combat Questions

Postby Starfire on Mon 04 Apr 2011 12:59

We are discussing this internally now. At issue, the wording using Expended is not a common usage, thus I am having trouble thinking this was a coincidence. In particular, large ships with high TM vs speed would be severely affected. Ya, I think the wording used was intentional. And I seem to remember discussions with Jeff Jones on this topic (lengthy discussions).
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