WP Stagnation

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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby Crucis on Sun 06 Jan 2013 19:18

tmul4050 wrote:Thats odd my post didn't go on the board. :?

anyway
energy weapons (however they work) would have changed the theban war outcome in that the war would have been shorter (I think). The war itself is a good example of how to break WP deadlock. Have lots of new tech and be willing to lose lots and lots of ships.

Considering the casualties I wonder why Antonov did't just launch a simultaneous assault at Lorelei.


To the best of my knowledge, ST's had never been done before, so it may not have occurred to Antanov.

Also, remember as I mentioned above, pure 3E E-beams didn't have nearly the range to be competitive with Theban Xray lasers or HET lasers. If they'd had the range of E-beams in 3rdR, it might have been a different story... literally.
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby Dawn Falcon on Sun 06 Jan 2013 19:28

Well, remember that real life development works more like "tech trees", for military hardware, than "grab any item of X".
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sun 06 Jan 2013 21:09

Crucis wrote:To the best of my knowledge, ST's had never been done before, so it may not have occurred to Antanov.


You're right. The Bugs were the first race the TFN had encountered that used ST's. TFN doctrine would not have allowed such tactics.

Dawn Falcon wrote:Well, remember that real life development works more like "tech trees", for military hardware, than "grab any item of X".


My point exactly. The Ophiuchi were one of the few races that invested in the E weapons tree. It looks like they decided that at short range the armor skipping of E made up for it's lower damage overall.
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby tmul4050 on Mon 07 Jan 2013 07:28

I suppose you could say races act towards bias. Thebans had lasers, the ophiuchi used e beams, the federation like force beams and Rigilians had fighters. I mean all races could use any of the tech if they wanted but they had their favorites. And these biases evolved. The Ophiuchi love fighters so much so that they became rigilians with E beams, and the khanate also loved fighters, but kept their super dreadnoughts. Feds use fighters, but seem to really like combined arms: that is fighters, missles, forcebeams and het lasers and their ships reflect this. The Orians like specialist ships. and it goes on.

This is a good thing because it seems that there is no one right answer in design or strategy/tactics. :)

I have to admit I have always liked the rigilians with their focus on a fighter carrier fleet. They would hate the idea of WP stagnation, prefering mobile fights. Imagine tech 10/11 rigilians vs the bugs 8-) .

(BTW if there was any chance of a Rigilian comeback, possibly with their xenophobia reduced so they could relate to other races without exterminating them, I'm all for it. :) )
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Tue 08 Jan 2013 16:21

Too bad the Rigellians would have been the fourth best fighter using race had they survived as an interstellar race. The Crucians (the race itself as the Star Union was a multi species polity) and Ophiuchi were better natural pilots, and the Khanate would have developed superior strategy and tactics as the concept of fighters meshed well with their honor code.
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby Crucis on Tue 08 Jan 2013 16:46

While I won't rule out any chance of a Rigellian comeback, I seriously doubt that their "worldview" will change much at all. If anything, I'd imagine that they'd see ISW3 as proof that they were right to want to wipe everyone else out. That said, it's also possible that they might get a bit more pragmatic. After all, even the Tangri who don't even think of other space-faring races as "intelligent" manage to realize that those other races represent a serious threat to their existence, and act accordingly.

Of course, if they were strong enough to go exploring and they happened to find some little ol' NPR, the Rigellians might decide to wipe them out since the NPR didn't have the ability to stop them. OTOH, if they happened to find a WP into a system with a Terran or Orion colony, they might ... might ... decide that it was wiser to quietly leave the system, and let sleeping dogs lie.
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby Crucis on Tue 08 Jan 2013 16:52

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:Too bad the Rigellians would have been the fourth best fighter using race had they survived as an interstellar race. The Crucians (the race itself as the Star Union was a multi species polity) and Ophiuchi were better natural pilots, and the Khanate would have developed superior strategy and tactics as the concept of fighters meshed well with their honor code.



I don't even know if they'd be 4th best. It's not like the Rigelians had any innate reason to be good with fighters. They just happened to be the race that first developed them, from our perspective, though I imagine that they'd be better with fighters than the Gorm or the Tangri, given that centauroids don't do fighters well.
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Tue 08 Jan 2013 21:45

Crucis wrote:I don't even know if they'd be 4th best. It's not like the Rigelians had any innate reason to be good with fighters. They just happened to be the race that first developed them, from our perspective, though I imagine that they'd be better with fighters than the Gorm or the Tangri, given that centauroids don't do fighters well.


I'm ranking them just above the TFN as they were a fighter focused race.

Crucis wrote:While I won't rule out any chance of a Rigellian comeback, I seriously doubt that their "worldview" will change much at all. If anything, I'd imagine that they'd see ISW3 as proof that they were right to want to wipe everyone else out. That said, it's also possible that they might get a bit more pragmatic. After all, even the Tangri who don't even think of other space-faring races as "intelligent" manage to realize that those other races represent a serious threat to their existence, and act accordingly.


I'd love to see how the Rigellians and Pitari would react to each other.
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby Crucis on Tue 08 Jan 2013 21:53

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:
Crucis wrote:While I won't rule out any chance of a Rigellian comeback, I seriously doubt that their "worldview" will change much at all. If anything, I'd imagine that they'd see ISW3 as proof that they were right to want to wipe everyone else out. That said, it's also possible that they might get a bit more pragmatic. After all, even the Tangri who don't even think of other space-faring races as "intelligent" manage to realize that those other races represent a serious threat to their existence, and act accordingly.


I'd love to see how the Rigellians and Pitari would react to each other.


Let's see.

The Rigellians, being Rigellians would want to wipe the Pitari from the galaxy. The Pitari, being who they are, would rather conquer the Rigellians. But seeing as how the Rigellians are almost impossible to conquer, the Pitari would probably end up having to nuke'em, and certainly wouldn't hesitate for a second if the Rigellians had already nuked a Pitari world.
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Re: WP Stagnation

Postby tmul4050 on Wed 09 Jan 2013 02:09

The main diference that I see with the Rigilains is in their attitude ti space warfare. The fighter was their primary arm, or weapon of their fleet. The carrier was the main battle unit, with no other vessel larger. Heavy crusiers were used as comand ships (at least later) but these were never a dreat threat to the grand alliance. The Rigilians were focused on fighters. Little combined arms. I could see them at some point deploying CVA's (if they had survived) and battlecrusiers but BB's and SD's I donlt think so.

The only race that approached this outlook is the ophuichi, but they tend to see themselves as a plug in to the federation (well it seems that way to me). I don't know much about the cruxian order of battle to coment about them.

We should remeber that the Rigilain method of war was very successful to them (until ISW3 anyway).

As for their attitude on other races, remember that once before that they had changed their worldview. At one point a large part of their pop enslaved other races. That view could become ascendent again. Sort of a redemption, kind of. "Killing all races is impossible so we must rule them. But first we must stop them killing us. I propose we make a treaty so we can recover. And we show we are not currently a threat, but could be helpful."
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